need help to identify iron crown

[wangyaokang2003]

i got this iron crown in auction but the auctioneer didnt tell me when this iron crown was made i really want to know it was made during the ww1 or after the ww1，besides the back of this iron crown is different from normal type III. thanks for help

 

[graham]

Some pictures would be of help.

[Elmar Lang]

I think that many of us in this room are curious and impatient to see any image of the mentioned Order of the Iron Crown...

 

All the best,

 

Enzo (E.L.)

[wangyaokang2003]

sorry i forget to upload my picture about this...already upload picture now,thanks for reply!

best wishes

[Elmar Lang]

From what I can see in the picture, the laurel wreath of the Kriegsdekoration looks like being of the postwar type, for it is not enameled to the reverse and without any engraving under the translucent, green enamel to the wreath's obverse. 

The pictures don't help much to understand a further detail: are the two halves forming the lombardic crown with a sharp edge where they're soldered at left and right, or are they smoothly rounded? 

From what I can see, I fear an early reproduction made by Messrs. Rothe & Neffe, Vienna, or an upgraded WW1 piece, by adding a later made Kriegsdekoration. 

Best wishes, 

Enzo (E.L.) 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Elmar Lang

[graham]

Elmar has nailed it. The lack of enamel on the reverse of the war decoration wreath is a good indication of it not being a wartime piece.

[wangyaokang2003]

9 hours ago, Elmar Lang said:

从图片中我可以看到，Kriegsdekoration 的月桂花环看起来像是战后类型的，因为它的背面没有珐琅，花环正面的半透明绿色珐琅下也没有任何雕刻。 

这些图片对理解进一步的细节没有多大帮助：两半是形成具有锋利边缘的伦巴第皇冠，它们在左右焊接处，还是光滑圆润？ 

据我所知，我担心维也纳的 Rothe & Neffe 先生制作的早期复制品，或者是通过添加后来制作的 Kriegsdekoration 来升级的 WW1 作品。 

最好的祝愿， 

恩佐 (EL) 

hi,thank you for reply again,maybe i can add more lombardic crown detail when its arrive china,but i still have a question, an early reproduction made after ww1, it means fake?

best wishes

3 hours ago, graham said:

Elmar has nailed it. The lack of enamel on the reverse of the war decoration wreath is a good indication of it not being a wartime piece.

thanks for solve my question! i hope you have a nice day

 

[Elmar Lang]

Well, a "fake" is properly a piece made to deceive a collector.

 

Those made post-WW1 by Messrs Rothe & Neffe of Vienna (once official makers of Orders and Decorations to the Habsburg Crown), were copies made for collectors, which production discontinued in the mid-'70s.

 

They were made with the original dies and tools and often, they are very well made.

 

In any case, a post-1918 piece, although if made by the original maker, is not to be considered as an original, but as a copy (and its price, according to that).

 

If a copy made by Rothe is sold as being an original (and the seller knows the truth)... well, in that case we can consider it as a fake...

 

Waiting for further images,

 

all the best,

 

E.L.

[wangyaokang2003]

1 hour ago, Elmar Lang said:

Well, a "fake" is properly a piece made to deceive a collector.

 

Those made post-WW1 by Messrs Rothe & Neffe of Vienna (once official makers of Orders and Decorations to the Habsburg Crown), were copies made for collectors, which production discontinued in the mid-'70s.

 

They were made with the original dies and tools and often, they are very well made.

 

In any case, a post-1918 piece, although if made by the original maker, is not to be considered as an original, but as a copy (and its price, according to that).

 

If a copy made by Rothe is sold as being an original (and the seller knows the truth)... well, in that case we can consider it as a fake...

 

Waiting for further images,

 

all the best,

 

E.L.

 

thank you E.L. i already understand what you mean.actually，i got this piece on Zeige‘s auction for nearly 900EUR（high tariff），i think maybe i paid too much for this.when its arrive china i will post more photo about this，thanks again for you reply and i hope you can have a good day.

best wishes

[Elmar Lang]

best wishes for the arrival of your piece then!

[Graf]

Orden der Eisernen Krone,

Dekoration 3. Klasse mit KD und Schwertern. Bronze vergoldet und emailliert, eiserne Einlage, emaillierte Kriegsdekoration, am Dreiecksband mit aufgelegten vergoldeten Schwertern. Zei 2067

This is the only information about the item

You can see enlarged pictures on Zeige Auction site

[wangyaokang2003]

1 hour ago, Graf said:

Orden der Eisernen Krone,

Dekoration 3. Klasse mit KD und Schwertern。Bronze vergoldet und emailliert, eiserne Einlage, emaillierte Kriegsdekoration, am Dreiecksband mit aufgelegten vergoldeten Schwertern。蔡2067

这是关于该项目的唯一信息

您可以在 Zeige 拍卖网站上看到放大的图片

thanks for reply! in fact, i got this on zeige at their auction, i just have some question about this pieces.

 thanks as always

[Graf]

That is why I listed the Lot description and the Lot number, so members can look at it till is still on the Zeige site and they can give you more information if needed. However you still can list pictures once you got the Order

So far Elmar Lang gave very good information

In my opinion 900 Euro is on the high site of scale. You can find such item for less. However you bought it and enjoy it.

Next time you will have a better knowledge When the description of an item on the Auction/Sale site is vague there is a reason. Look the pictures and compare with other similar items on internet..or ask the Forum beforehand

 

Cheers