Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Just got a nice mask today, with a tin I cannot identify..... it is not the standard one.... but IS German... Maybe early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Notice the wide flat loops for the straps above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 the 4 rivets in the bottom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 fff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 fff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 above is what the rivets hold in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 (edited) Chris, This is what I believe. Just a guess, but an educated one. This is perhaps a second pattern M17 Lederschutzmask gas mask container. The cans were made under contract, so would have to be made to the specifications laid down by the German Government. Therefore I do not think this is just a makers variation. All other cans have a circular paper in the bottom with instructions on it. When the mask is out of the can and worn on the neck in the alert position, the can is usually left open. Under combat conditions, the paper instructions can and do sometimes fall out. I have seen this happen several times with my living history/reenactment unit. Perhaps the instructions were changed into a pamphlet or booklet format and these metal prongs were used to hold it in more securely. I have only seen a few of these, but every one has the deeper top lid like yours. Unfortunately I have never seen one with instructions in it. However, since every other type of can included instructions, it would make sense that these did as well. A piece of paper lying in the bottom with with German printed on it, can be seen to be just that. No need to remove it. A small booklet would raise an allied soldiers curiousity to see what it was. Something hidden? Some important document? Hmm, just a piece of paper with German writing on it. Then perhaps it is given to the officer in charge as a captured document or just balled up and thrown away. There is also another type of M17 can, the laminated plywood can with metal top and bottom. Very rare.Dan MurphyPS: If anyone has this can or has seen one with whatever the prongs are supposed to hold, I too would like to see or hear about it. Edited May 3, 2006 by Daniel Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 It looks like the one here with the ridge along the middle going inwards instead of outwards.http://pagesperso.aol.fr/guerredesgaz/Lesm...Leder/Leder.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Chris,Can you make out if there is a date in the circular ink stamp? I am wondering if this can could be for the 1918 mask. I have seen these cans before and I had always assumed that the four bent strips of metal were to raise the filter off of the floor of the can. In reading through Kraus, he makes an interesting statement regarding the fold of the mask to fit it into the can. He says that the neck strap of the 1918 mask was to be stored at the bottom of the can, underneath the filter. These "spacers" might be there to create that free area under the mask. You don't see these cans too often, but you don't see M18 gas masks either. Of course, if the can is dated 1917, my whole theory is out the window! Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 How do you tell a M17 from an M18?bestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Well, once again, according to Kraus, there were lots of small differences. He even has a drawing of one on page 355 of his 1999 book. The shape of the leather was different, in that the top corners were squared, not rounded as on the M17. The spoked reinforcements (Spinne) were gone from the eyepieces. The string on the front of the M17 was replaced by a strap, which hooked to a squared off loop at the bottom front (Mundring). The elastic head straps were configured differently. Production of this mask was to have started in October of 1918. I don't think I have ever seen an example.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 I think it may be a very late M17 one...Here is a comparrison, the metal quality is worse than the early one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 Its a tad shorter, and the mask (on the right) has a different, cheaper way of attacking the string just above the filter....I am assuming it is a late version M17 mask as this loop soldered to the screw in part was carried over to the m18 (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 http://gasmasklexikon.com/Page/Start01.htmA M18 is pictured on this site... click on germanyC and the selection is on the left side.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Chris,That is a good picture of the M18 mask, but I think that metal outlet valve is a postwar addition. Too bad they did not show the carrying can.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 Hi,I think the outlet valves were Reichswehr additionsBestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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