Dolf Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) Wow I like your worn medal Dolf! Would you like to exchange it to me against mine Sebastopol medal? Hi Bryan, I guess you're kidding, anyway no thanks, buddy.DolfPS: btw, what would I do with two Sevastopol Medals and no more Odessa Medal?... Edited May 15, 2006 by Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I'm just a well worned collector freak! Nice medal. I do not have any Odessa medal in my collection yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I can add:Leningrad: his rank is StarshinaOdessa: issued by Commander of Bases/Rear Area of the Black Sea Fleet, Marine MajorGeneral ... I can't read it. I have the WW2 navy admirals and marine generals book, so need a sharper, clear closeup scan and should be able to identify him. It looks like "Tavrinov" but there wasn't anyone that name in the navy.Sevastapol: Hey! Yours is issued to a civilian "comrade" just like mine, and ALSO by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Crimean ASSR. Now that is TWO issued by them! Stalingrad: Rank is Starshy Serzhant of Technical ServicesCaucasus: rank is Serzhant. I can't tell if his last name is Besdechen or Besefen. Issued by commander of signals of 37th Independent Army, Major General "Turovsky" (at least that's what it looks like-- maybe a sharper close up. I couldn't find anyone with this name on Steen Ammentorp's website.Polar: this is a naval issue but I can't quite read the stamped. It is signed by a Vice Admiral whose name I cannot make out. Try a closeup clear scan of that part of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 never mind on closeups for Odessa-- sometimes if I look again, I figure it out.Sure enough, that wasPavel Selivestrovich GAVRIKOV who signed that. Born 14/26.1.1898 in Kollovka, died 30.4.1959 in Leningrad.Major General of Intendance Service 21.5.41, in army as a commissar 1917-26, then in navy 1926-58. Deputy Commander of Black Sea fleet Bases May 1941, ACTING Commander of BSF Bases since 1 September 1943, and Commander September 1943 to November 1944. After the war he was an Assistant Commandant for Materiel-Technical Affairs at the Navy's Voroshilov Academy.So there's ONE naval autograph!And here is Comrade Gavrikov's cheerful face, ? 2001 V. M. Lur'e's "Admirali i Generali Voenno-Morskogo Flota SSSR v Period Velikoi Otechestvenoi i Sovietskogo-Yaponskoi Voin (1941-1945)-- hard to find, expensive, but WORTH it! Original photos are the size of a small postage stamp:[attachmentid=39603] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Rick,Many thanks for all the details! I tried to find what a few words mean in English, but no result... "Starshina"=?"Starshy"=?As for the sharper closeups of the areas you mention for the Def. of Caucasus and Polar Regions Docs, I'll try and see what I can get, even thought I find it difficult to get a better result from my HP PSC 2355 Sevastopol Doc: issued to a civilian? You really mean that Comrade Grigoriy Piotrovich Shishko was not a Red Army guy?Was this a common practice, to award these Medals to civilian personel?Wouldn't they rather be awarded with Partisan Medals instead, for example?Or these Medals were awarded to those civilians inhabitants of those cities, who fought side by side with the military, when those cities were attacked?Odessa Doc: Thanks a lot for all the amazing details! So I do have an autograph of a Major General on that Doc! Wow! Btw, does this mean that Sergeant 1st rank Maksim Ivanovich Iliyn was a Navy Sergeant?Many thanks once again Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Starshina = Sergeant Major in RussianStarshy Serzhant = Senior Sergeant (3 stripes on shoulder boards, like a Feldwebel in the German army)Sevastaopol: well, YOUR Comrade was MORE important than MINE, since mine was signed by the Deputy and yours by the illegible (it looks like a Georgian name?) Big Cheese, His Supreme Comradeness, the President of the Prsidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Crimean ASSR himself... but WHAT our two Comrades were, I don't know. Interesting that yours was issued while the Crimea was still completely occupied by the Germans, and mine just as its liberation was happening. Mine is part of a group where he got a Military Merit Medal in 1945 and a Defense of the Caucasus Medal--so my guy was evacuated out of Sevastapol in the "Soviet Dunkirk." I would guess that both your man and mine were PARTY functionaries. There was no Victory Medal-- military or civilian--in my group, so it is still mysterious to me.Yes, "Starshina 1st rank" is a navy title, but these changed after the war and I am not sure what, exactly, the old ranks meant. My earliest rank chart for the navy's petty officers is from the 1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Amazing details! Wow! Thanks a lot for helping with those unknown words.Now, I was wondering about your Comrade who got the Sevastopol Medal and also the Military Merit Medal. A civilian, even a Party functionary, could be awarded with a Military Medal?So you think that my Comrade was more important than yours because my Doc is signed by the Big Boss himself and yours "only" by the Deputy? Many thanks for the pic of Major General Pavel Selivestrovich GAVRIKOV! Wow! Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Hi again Rick,Well, not sure if this is good enough, anyway here are the closeups for those two Docs.Please let me know if this is ok, or if not what should I do.Thanks again.Def of Caucasus closeup:Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 And the Def of Polar Regions closeup.Thank you.Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 And finally a closeup of the Def of Sevastopol Doc.Many thanks,Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The Major General commanding 37th Army's signals troops continues to baffle me. The signature could be either Tu-rovsky or Gits-rovsky (yes, it is THAT bad) and I don't find either listed on Steen Ammentorp's website, but maybe he's an "unlisted" guy.Now as to the Polar. Issued by Commander of the White Sea Naval Flotilla (July 1944 to March 1945) Vice-Admiral (29.1.44) Yury Aleksandrevich PANTELEEV, born in St. Petersburg 18/31.1.1901, died Leningrad 5.5.83. Served in the navy 1918- 1968. Final rank Admiral (3 stars) 1953and where do we know Comrade Admiral Panteleev from already? ---->http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=2...indpost&p=19359Comrade Admiral Panteleev's cheerful visage ? 2001 V. M. Lur'e's "Admirali i Generali Voenno-Morskogo Flota SSSR v Period Velikoi Otechestvenoi i Sovietskogo-Yaponskoi Voin (1941-1945)-- hard to find, expensive, but WORTH it! Original photos are the size of a small postage stamp:[attachmentid=39636]The PotPotSSotCASSR (for short ) seems to be something like "Shebadzhe" on the Sevastapol document.And yes, like the Border medal, the MMM could be awarded to civilians for assistance to the armed forces. A war correspondent, maybe? I still suspect PARTY from theissuing authority-- probably the Presidium's private staff who made sure that the Exalted Comrades always had the best food and clean laundry!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 A Major General, now a Vice-Admiral autograph... Wow! Wow! And Wow again! Many thanks, Rick! Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The Major General commanding 37th Army's signals troops continues to baffle me. The signature could be either Tu-rovsky or Gits-rovsky (yes, it is THAT bad) Turovsky. The first letter with the three perpendicular lines and top bar is a cursive, capital "T" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Odessa: issued by Commander of Bases/Rear Area of the Black Sea Fleet, Marine MajorGeneral ... I can't read it. I have the WW2 navy admirals and marine generals book, so need a sharper, clear closeup scan and should be able to identify him. It looks like "Tavrinov" but there wasn't anyone that name in the navy.Gavrinov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 To a "T." So I thought, and that was my first, and third best reading of the signals general. But there is nobody listed by that name on Steen's website... nor of the other version, for that matter, if it is a "G" (looks like our "T") and a Cyrillic "i" rather than the 3 uprights under a roof of the cursive T.Grasping at calligraphic straws. As I always say, a scribble is a scribble in ANY language. I can read WELL written Russian. I can't read BADLY written Russian. I can read WELL written English/German/etc. I can't read BADLY written English/German/etc. My rhetorical money would be on "Turovsky" but I have no source to prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I can read WELL written Russian. I can't read BADLY written Russian. I can read WELL written English/German/etc. I can't read BADLY written English/German/etc. Like me ... I can't read BADLY written English ... like my own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 It looks like these Red Army Military used to write like Doctors... Many thanks gentlemen! Fantastic research, Rick! Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 GavrinovDudeman,Rick mentions a Major General Pavel Selivestrovich GAVRIKOV.Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dudeman,Rick mentions a Major General Pavel Selivestrovich GAVRIKOV.DolfIf he's identified a particular person, than go with it. A cursive, cyrillic, lower-case "k" can frequently look like a cyrillic "n". It's so small I can't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I couldn't make a "k" out of that "n" either-- but there he was with full biography in Lur'e! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 From what I can see, the Russian language seems to be much more difficult than I would imagine! Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steen Ammentorp Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Regarding Turovsky then he is one of those generals that will be included in the next update of my database. His full name is Petr Pavlovich Turovskii and he was made a Major-General of Signal Troops on the 2nd of November 1944.Sadly I don't have anything further on him yet - well now I do of course - but except that nothing, sorry.Kind RegardsSteen AmmentorpThe Generals of World War II Edited May 16, 2006 by Steen Ammentorp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) Regarding Turovsky then he is one of those generals that will be included in the next update of my database. His full name is Petr Pavlovich Turovskii and he was made a Major-General of Signal Troops on the 2nd of November 1944.Sadly I don't have anything further on him yet - well now I do of course - but except that nothing, sorry.Kind RegardsSteen AmmentorpThe Generals of World War IIThank you Steen.Very interesting site you have there! Congratulations for the great job!DolfPS: Btw, why is it I have an "Object not found Error 404" page when I try to search for Soviet Generals starting by the letter "C"? Chuikov, for example, starts by "C", right?Dolf Edited May 16, 2006 by Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steen Ammentorp Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 PS: Btw, why is it I have an "Object not found Error 404" page when I try to search for Soviet Generals starting by the letter "C"? Chuikov, for example, starts by "C", right? Somethings goes wrong when the database is creating the url. I'll have it looked into - Thanks. In the mean time please use the search funktion or this link http://www.generals.dk/nation/Soviet_Union/Ch.htmlKind RegardsSteen AmmentorpThe Generals of World War II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Thanks a lot Steen. Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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