Bratovanov.T Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Hi guys, I am new to medal collecting (I'm 17) and just came across a very strange soldier's cross with short swords from the Balkan wars. It is the first emission. Could someone please tell me why it has short swords. I have compared it to a cross the same emission. I can't share the pics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracA Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Hello Bratovanov, Welcome to GMIC and welcome to the wonderful, sometimes maddening but always fulfilling, world of medal collecting. You should repost your question in the Central & Eastern European States section of the board. It is more likely to be seen there. All the best, Tracy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 25/02/2024 at 22:04, Bratovanov.T said: Hi guys, I am new to medal collecting (I'm 17) and just came across a very strange soldier's cross with short swords from the Balkan wars. It is the first emission. Could someone please tell me why it has short swords. I have compared it to a cross the same emission. I can't share the pics Welcome to the Club. It is a pity you cannot post any photos of the cross Here are pictures of the very first emission l of the soldiers cross it is made from silver The swards are normal size You can come across from time to time with some small variations of the different models of the cross however those variations could be explained with some errors during the making of the crosses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratovanov.T Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 Sorry for the bad lighting, I just made the photos now. If you want more photos I could make them tomorrow in daylight 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Hi Bratavanov, very nice crosses 1st type , 2nd variant . 👍 very interesting ribbon !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 16/03/2024 at 07:14, Bratovanov.T said: Sorry for the bad lighting, I just made the photos now. If you want more photos I could make them tomorrow in daylight Yes, interesting cross I can contribute the short swards as a maker error That does not make it more expensive then the others, unless someone wants to have it in their collection and is willing to pay extra Nice observation Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratovanov.T Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 (edited) Thank you, but what degree are the crosses? I think they are either first or second because of the yellowish metal. Also I have read that the soldier's cross was given with pentagonal ribbon til the serbo-Bulgarian war 1885. I think that till 1885 there were two degrees: "first" and "second". It thinks its first degree. Is there a chance that it was given before 1885? Was it made in Austro-hungary? Any information is helpful! Edited April 9 by Bratovanov.T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilieff Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said: Thank you, but what degree are the crosses? I think they are either first or second because of the yellowish metal. Most likely, yes. As long as the cross appears 'golden' (that is, either of yellow metal or gilded) and, of course, hasn't been altered by greedy 'traders' later on, it would be the top two classes. 1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said: Also I have read that the soldier's cross was given with pentagonal ribbon til the serbo-Bulgarian war 1885. I think that till 1885 there were two degrees: "first" and "second". It thinks its first degree No, that is incorrect. Until [at least] the end of the war, there were 3 classes of the soldiers' cross. However, we can be fairly certain that there were no wartime decorations, per se. In December 1885, once the war had ended, a fourth class is added. And no, the folding of the ribbon had little significance and cannot be used to date crosses - we can see pentagonal ribbons from the Balkan wars, as well. The folding of the ribbon was just a preference of the bearer, ribbon manufacturer specifics (to an extent) and partially a heritage from the Russian influence in the Bulgarian military. 1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said: Is there a chance that it was given before 1885? Yes, it's possible. 1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said: Was it made in Austro-hungary? We do not have sufficient information to speculate about the country of origin. If you are interested in the historical aspects of the topic, I would encourage you to search for Todor Petrov's book "Наградната система на България (1878 - 2010 г.)". It's a very good source of information, giving a clearer historical context, especially for those initial stages of the award system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 4 hours ago, ilieff said: Most likely, yes. As long as the cross appears 'golden' (that is, either of yellow metal or gilded) and, of course, hasn't been altered by greedy 'traders' later on, it would be the top two classes. No, that is incorrect. Until [at least] the end of the war, there were 3 classes of the soldiers' cross. However, we can be fairly certain that there were no wartime decorations, per se. In December 1885, once the war had ended, a fourth class is added. And no, the folding of the ribbon had little significance and cannot be used to date crosses - we can see pentagonal ribbons from the Balkan wars, as well. The folding of the ribbon was just a preference of the bearer, ribbon manufacturer specifics (to an extent) and partially a heritage from the Russian influence in the Bulgarian military. Yes, it's possible. We do not have sufficient information to speculate about the country of origin. If you are interested in the historical aspects of the topic, I would encourage you to search for Todor Petrov's book "Наградната система на България (1878 - 2010 г.)". It's a very good source of information, giving a clearer historical context, especially for those initial stages of the award system. Very nice explanations Those crosses could be 1st and 2nd class Once the ribbons from 1 to 4th Class were introduced then the class could be identified easier 1nd and 3rd Class had crossed ribbons Here is an overview of the Order for Bravery You can see that the pentagonal ribbon was used till the end of WW2 Yes Todor Petrov book is a good reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratovanov.T Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 14 hours ago, ilieff said: If you are interested in the historical aspects of the topic, I would encourage you to search for Todor Petrov's book "Наградната система на България (1878 - 2010 г.)". It's a very good source of information, giving a clearer historical context, especially for those initial stages of the award system. What is the best book about Bulgarian orders for the 1878-1944 9 September period? I'm thinking of buying Veselin Denkov's book because it's very cheap (it's 25 euros/ 50 levas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, Bratovanov.T said: What is the best book about Bulgarian orders for the 1878-1944 9 September period? I'm thinking of buying Veselin Denkov's book because it's very cheap (it's 25 euros/ 50 levas) It is a very nice book i have in mind 2011 Edition Weak point is the evaluation of the decorations The current market demands much higher prices. I do not recommend you to buy the older 2001 Edition It is smaller book and the information is not as good Most of the pictures are black and white. For starting point is OK, however the 2011 Edition is much better Late Prof Pavlov books are the best however they still demand much higher price then Denkov book(s) Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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