Unusual Bulgarian soldier's cross with short swords

[Bratovanov.T]

Hi guys, I am new to medal collecting (I'm 17) and just came across a very strange soldier's cross with short swords from the Balkan wars. It is the first emission. 

Could someone please tell me why it has short swords. I have compared it to a cross the same emission.

I can't share the pics

 

[TracA]

Hello Bratovanov,

 

Welcome to GMIC and welcome to the wonderful, sometimes maddening but always fulfilling, world of medal collecting. 

 

You should repost your question in the Central & Eastern European States section of the board. It is more likely to be seen there.

 

All the best,

 

Tracy

[Graf]

On 25/02/2024 at 22:04, Bratovanov.T said:

Hi guys, I am new to medal collecting (I'm 17) and just came across a very strange soldier's cross with short swords from the Balkan wars. It is the first emission. 

Could someone please tell me why it has short swords. I have compared it to a cross the same emission.

I can't share the pics

 

Welcome to the Club.

It is a pity you cannot post any photos of the cross

Here are pictures of the very first emission l of the soldiers cross it is made from silver

The swards are normal size

You can come across from time to time with some small variations of the different models of the cross however those variations could be explained with some errors during the making of the crosses

 

[Bratovanov.T]

Sorry for the bad lighting, I just made the photos now. If you want more photos I could make them tomorrow in daylight 

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hi Bratavanov, 

very nice crosses 1st type , 2nd variant . 👍 

very interesting ribbon !!!!! 

[Graf]

On 16/03/2024 at 07:14, Bratovanov.T said:

Sorry for the bad lighting, I just made the photos now. If you want more photos I could make them tomorrow in daylight 

Yes, interesting  cross I can contribute the short swards as a maker error

That does not make it more expensive then the others, unless someone wants to have it in their collection and is willing to pay extra

Nice observation

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Bratovanov.T]

Thank you, but what degree are the crosses? I think they are either first or second because of the yellowish metal.

Also I have read that the soldier's cross was given with pentagonal ribbon til the serbo-Bulgarian war 1885. I think that till 1885 there were two degrees: "first" and "second". It thinks its first degree.

 

Is there a chance that it was given before 1885?

Was it made in Austro-hungary?

Any information is helpful!

Edited April 9 by Bratovanov.T

[ilieff]

1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said:

Thank you, but what degree are the crosses? I think they are either first or second because of the yellowish metal.

 

Most likely, yes. As long as the cross appears 'golden' (that is, either of yellow metal or gilded) and, of course, hasn't been altered by greedy 'traders' later on, it would be the top two classes. 

 

1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said:

Also I have read that the soldier's cross was given with pentagonal ribbon til the serbo-Bulgarian war 1885. I think that till 1885 there were two degrees: "first" and "second". It thinks its first degree

No, that is incorrect. Until [at least] the end of the war, there were 3 classes of the soldiers' cross. However, we can be fairly certain that there were no wartime decorations, per se.  In December 1885, once the war had ended, a fourth class is added. And no, the folding of the ribbon had little significance and cannot be used to date crosses - we can see pentagonal ribbons from the Balkan wars, as well. The folding of the ribbon was just a preference of the bearer, ribbon manufacturer specifics (to an extent) and partially a heritage from the Russian influence in the Bulgarian military. 

 

1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said:

Is there a chance that it was given before 1885?

Yes, it's possible. 

 

1 hour ago, Bratovanov.T said:

Was it made in Austro-hungary?

We do not have sufficient information to speculate about the country of origin. 

 

 

 

 If you are interested in the historical aspects of the topic, I would encourage you to search for Todor Petrov's book "Наградната система на България (1878 - 2010 г.)". It's a very good source of information, giving a clearer historical context, especially for those initial stages of the award system. 

[Graf]

4 hours ago, ilieff said:

 

Most likely, yes. As long as the cross appears 'golden' (that is, either of yellow metal or gilded) and, of course, hasn't been altered by greedy 'traders' later on, it would be the top two classes. 

 

No, that is incorrect. Until [at least] the end of the war, there were 3 classes of the soldiers' cross. However, we can be fairly certain that there were no wartime decorations, per se.  In December 1885, once the war had ended, a fourth class is added. And no, the folding of the ribbon had little significance and cannot be used to date crosses - we can see pentagonal ribbons from the Balkan wars, as well. The folding of the ribbon was just a preference of the bearer, ribbon manufacturer specifics (to an extent) and partially a heritage from the Russian influence in the Bulgarian military. 

 

Yes, it's possible. 

 

We do not have sufficient information to speculate about the country of origin. 

 

 

 

 If you are interested in the historical aspects of the topic, I would encourage you to search for Todor Petrov's book "Наградната система на България (1878 - 2010 г.)". It's a very good source of information, giving a clearer historical context, especially for those initial stages of the award system. 

Very nice explanations

Those crosses could be 1st and 2nd class

Once the ribbons from 1 to 4th Class were introduced then the class could be identified easier

1nd and 3rd Class had crossed ribbons

 

Here is an overview of the Order for Bravery  You can see that the pentagonal ribbon was used till the end of WW2

 

Yes Todor Petrov book is  a good reference

[Bratovanov.T]

14 hours ago, ilieff said:

 

 If you are interested in the historical aspects of the topic, I would encourage you to search for Todor Petrov's book "Наградната система на България (1878 - 2010 г.)". It's a very good source of information, giving a clearer historical context, especially for those initial stages of the award system. 

What is the best book about Bulgarian orders for the 1878-1944 9 September period? I'm thinking of buying Veselin Denkov's book because it's very cheap (it's 25 euros/ 50 levas)

[Graf]

3 hours ago, Bratovanov.T said:

What is the best book about Bulgarian orders for the 1878-1944 9 September period? I'm thinking of buying Veselin Denkov's book because it's very cheap (it's 25 euros/ 50 levas)

It is a very nice book  i have in mind 2011 Edition  Weak point is the evaluation of the decorations The current market demands much higher prices.

I do not recommend you to buy the older 2001 Edition It is smaller book and the information is not as good Most of the pictures are black and white. For starting point is OK, however the 2011 Edition is much better

Late Prof Pavlov books are the best however they still demand much higher price then Denkov book(s)

 

Cheers