Don’t Get Burned Like I Did!

[Stogieman]

Bid on this case in Germany and won. Unfortunately when it arrived it appeared to be brand, spankin’ new! The inside liner of the base isn’t uv reactive but the silk lining of the lid does appear to be. Too good to be true usually is! My subsequent investigation shows these are just starting to creep into the market, possibly being made in England. Having never seen another I thought I was safe but no, it’s a copy. Don’t be like me!

[VtwinVince]

Sometimes the learning experience can be costly.

[Deanna]

I'm sorry you got burned on that Stogieman...karma is real, they will get theirs one day man.

[bolewts58]

I've owned cased Grand Cross sets of both the Order of Albert the Brave and St. Henry Military Order and the cases by G.A. Scharffenberg, Dresden were gilt printed and the coat of arms incused. I have never seen any original case even remotely like this. Original cases always had the Scharffenberg name and address printed in the upper lid as well as a green and white Scharffenberg paper label on the bottom together with another white paper label from the ribbon maker C.E. Kunath, Dresden. The same is true of other Saxon makers such as Alfredn Roesner, Glaser u. Sohn, and Mortiz Elimeyer, not to mention other makers of Saxon orders like Godet and Rothe.

 

So it's odd that whoever is faking these would create something that IMO never existed in history.

Edited March 11 by bolewts58

[bolewts58]

10 minutes ago, bolewts58 said:

 

 

Edited March 11 by bolewts58
duplicate post

[Stogieman]

3 hours ago, bolewts58 said:

I've owned cased Grand Cross sets of both the Order of Albert the Brave and St. Henry Military Order and the cases by G.A. Scharffenberg, Dresden were gilt printed and the coat of arms incused. I have never seen any original case even remotely like this. Original cases always had the Scharffenberg name and address printed in the upper lid as well as a green and white Scharffenberg paper label on the bottom together with another white paper label from the ribbon maker C.E. Kunath, Dresden. The same is true of other Saxon makers such as Alfredn Roesner, Glaser u. Sohn, and Mortiz Elimeyer, not to mention other makers of Saxon orders like Godet and Rothe.

 

So it's odd that whoever is faking these would create something that IMO never existed in history.

Good Morning! I agree with you wholeheartedly on post 1900 cases. I’ve owned a substantial number of Saxon pieces over the years that I’ve collected. The title and seals were incused into the lids. The WW1 era examples I’ve handled were usually red. I’ve seen interior maker marks and paper labels for Scharffenburg but not Roessner, Glaser or Osang. They often had the Kunath label as well. The pre-WW1 cases I’ve handled were often black or green but those often did not have a maker mark although the pieces themselves usually did. 
When I first saw the original listing I made the incorrect assumption that the case was circa 1870, or possibly earlier. The original images from the seller it appeared to have some legitimate age to it (see below), maybe he used a filter to mask the real appearance.

Bottom line, I made a huge mistake. My concentration right now has been narrowed to almost strictly the St. Henry Order, although Saxon enlisted items are also a huge draw to me. The Albert Order seems to be being massively faked right now. I have yet to see faked Saxon Merit Orders but that’s probably just a question of time until that happens unfortunately. I’ve seen very bad copies of St. Henry RKs but they are easily distinguished from the real ones.

Live and learn people, our hobby has become a minefield.

[Stogieman]

PS: would love to see images of the Grand Cross of the St. Henry Order if you have any!

[bolewts58]

4 hours ago, Stogieman said:

PS: would love to see images of the Grand Cross of the St. Henry Order if you have any!

 

I sold my Imperial German order collection in 1996 before it was a common practice to take pictures (pre-digital cameras and poor scanners). It's one of my great regrets that I never took any photos of my collection.

[Stogieman]

Bummer, sounds like it was fabulous!

[VtwinVince]

There are a bunch of fake cases making the rounds now on German fleabay, including some for the various grades of the AO. So yes, extreme vigilance is now the rule.

[Bernd_W]

9 hours ago, bolewts58 said:

So it's odd that whoever is faking these would create something that IMO never existed in history.

But this is nothing new, think of the EK 1 or 2 fantasy cases sold on eBay every week. IMO this was also some kind of cutlery or whatever case. See the lock. There is a imprint and some damages, looks like there was another lock at some point present there. Likely a lock which were looking too new.

[Stogieman]

It never ceases to amaze me the depth people are willing to go now to take advantage of the collecting community. I wouldn’t buy an Albert Order of any grade these days unless it was coming from an irrefutable source. I see so many copies! 

[Bernd_W]

These are mostly other collectors, think of Kujau, Klietmann, Blass. Nobody start to selling copys from the scratch, you need to have the knowledge and know how the collector community works. 

They finance their collection with this. Like other people do by selling high and buying low stuff they didnt even collect, when seeing a cheap piece. All of this behavior is bad for the collectors, but you walk between these people at the shows.