Arend Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Hi, I am looking forward to hearing your views about this badge. Thank you! Arend navy1.jfif navy2.jfif
Arend Posted February 25 Author Posted February 25 Thank you Lew, for some reason I could not attached the PICs directly.
VtwinVince Posted February 25 Posted February 25 I think it's a fake, with the attributes of several different manufacturers.
Arend Posted February 26 Author Posted February 26 I can not understand, why to fake using a complicated expensive double-face press (two molds), instead, the cheap back flat and not follow the standard common patterns for creating credibility. Seems unlogical. rgds I got this one from a family lot (from Hamburg), with other personal stuff (not from a collector or seller).
Stogieman Posted February 26 Posted February 26 Good Morning, unfortunately, this badge does not conform to any known, original badges. Issued or private purchase. Nor is there anything in the published literature that shows this item. Please see Carsten Baldes book or even Steven Previtera’s book for examples of known, original badges.
Arend Posted February 26 Author Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Stogieman said: Good Morning, unfortunately, this badge does not conform to any known, original badges. Issued or private purchase. Nor is there anything in the published literature that shows this item. Please see Carsten Baldes book or even Steven Previtera’s book for examples of known, original badges. Thank you, for the references. Will try to go deeper.
Arend Posted February 26 Author Posted February 26 HI, found the same frontal pattern: Imperial Germany, Kaiser Reich, WWI, Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II According to the site, it is referenced in the " Detlev Niemann's price guide book".
lew Posted February 26 Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Arend said: HI, found the same frontal pattern: Imperial Germany, Kaiser Reich, WWI, Wilhelm I and Wilhelm II According to the site, it is referenced in the " Detlev Niemann's price guide book". Hi Arend, the linked badge is a well known fake. But the pattern of your badge is a known design from Godet, see examples here. However the details on your example judging from the low quality photos are a bit too soft, IMO not war time made. I wait for opinions from other navy flyer badge collectors.
Stogieman Posted February 26 Posted February 26 Hi, on the website link you posted there’s a rather substantial number of fakes.
Arend Posted February 26 Author Posted February 26 (edited) The mentioned Godet (bottom right), the (main) difference is back, which is a radial pattern. The stamp is not so sharp too: Edited February 26 by Arend
VtwinVince Posted February 26 Posted February 26 I'd like to see more images of the other items, but I'm not getting a warm feeling from these.
lew Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) 18 hours ago, Arend said: The mentioned Godet (bottom right), the (main) difference is back, which is a radial pattern. The stamp is not so sharp too: You're right the period badges made by Godet have back plate with radial pattern as well as unique hinge and pin design. Keep it in mind that Godet navy flyer badges were made in exceptionally small quantity(less than 10 known examples to exist today, with sea pilot, land pilot and observer all included), that makes any variation from different hardware setup to poorer details due to lower striking force or tool being worn highly unlikely, that's why I don't think your badge is war time made judging from the completely different hardware and the details. Here you can see the level of details on period badge. Edited February 27 by lew
Arend Posted February 27 Author Posted February 27 Thanks again, Lew. Your arguments are logical. We can think that my exemplar used a frontal stamp that was copied from one rare Godet, and this post-war "maker" decided to create a new back stamp based on the negative frontal stamp. Well, at least my exemplar seems to be a rare copy BTW, just discovered another strange aspect, the material, it is silver (~800 tested), with gold plating. rgds Arend
lew Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) If your badge has the same measure of height and width as other samples, I would say that your badge was struck from the original dies used to produce period samples, the period badges with backing plate also have the front piece made from die struck. Yours were struck with less pressure therefore softer details BUT the key features seem to be all there. In this case it might be a private purchase piece made after the war using the original tool with different fitting hardware for price reduction or upon specific requirement from customer, just one plausible theory though. How did you test the silver content? Is any marks on the pin or elsewhere? Edited February 27 by lew
Arend Posted February 27 Author Posted February 27 (edited) Hi Lew, the test was done by a local jeweler using an acid test. No visible marks. rgds Edited February 27 by Arend
VtwinVince Posted February 27 Posted February 27 I'm sceptical, and we've seen countless aviation fakes produced in real silver. I would also expect to see a silver mark.
Lubo Posted March 1 Posted March 1 Hi guys, AREND, where did you find this picture, can we see the reverse of these badges?! Very nice originals! I am especially interested in the prinzen land pilot by Zimmermann! The thread starter is most likely a fake! The reverse set up tells you all!
VtwinVince Posted March 1 Posted March 1 You're saying these are genuine based on one bad photo? Remarkable.
lew Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) The two full size badges are published examples if I'm not mistaken, the engraved land flyer badge can be found in all three books from Carsten, Pandis and Previtera with extra detailed presentations. The other one I posted is published in Carstens book as well. @Lubo you can find the photos here. Edited March 2 by lew
Lubo Posted March 2 Posted March 2 Thank you Lew! Vince, I might not be very active here, but I know my game
VtwinVince Posted March 2 Posted March 2 Aha, it would be nice if posters would cite the source of their photos.
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