Romania Romania - ROMANIAN CRUSADE MEDAL WITH SWORDS.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gentlemen

just spotted this on German ebay, what do you do when you have a common Rumanian medal issued in the thousands, slap a pair of German crossed swords on the ribbon, claim it was issued to Romanian "Legion" ex IRON GUARD* officers attached to the Germans Army, then sit back and watch the ignorant fools throw their money at you auction for the honour to claim this "Rare" prize.

* I believe IRON GUARD members, ex or otherwise spent a lot of time keeping a low profile.

He also stupidly states the name "P.GRANT" under the head of female Romania was a Romanian Minister!!! and we all know he was the designer of the medal. Medals found without the name were made in Germany.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Orden-Kampf-gegen-den-K...1QQcmdZViewItem

Point 1, the medal was never issued with swords, or any mention of swords on the Brevet or Urkunde.

It would be like a German soldier adding swords to the "Frozen Flesh Medal".

Now there is an original idea

Point 2, No picture has ever emerged (to my knowledge) showing them worn in this fashion on either Romanian or German soldiers and until one comes to light this stays in the FANTASIA FILE.

The only attachment to the ribbon were a number of Battle Bars.

Kevin in Deva

Edited June 25, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Ulsterman]

While unauthorized, it is not uncommon practice amongst German army vets to "add swords" for combat awards.: never during the war though. The Crusade medal was awarded for both combat and noncombat service-and indeed, to entire platoons at once.

You are right-this description is rubbish and the reverse is even more interesting, yet the piece itself seems original.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Ulsterman

[Stogieman]

And a "whonkin-huge" set of original, gilt swords.......

[Cam_s]

Hello Guys,

Looking at the piece shown it reminds me of mine.

How was the attachment of the loop placed on the top of the medal itself. From the pictures it does not look like the highest quality and this holds true for mine.

So I am wondering if it is right that the attachment was not the best piece of medal making out there,

Thanks for the help,

Cam

[Kev in Deva]

Hello Guys,

Looking at the piece shown it reminds me of mine.

How was the attachment of the loop placed on the top of the medal itself. From the pictures it does not look like the highest quality and this holds true for mine.

So I am wondering if it is right that the attachment was not the best piece of medal making out there,

Thanks for the help,

Cam

Hallo Cam ,

there are two known versions of this medal, the original Romanian made ones, with the designer name P. GRANT under the female head of Romania and a German or Austrian made version with no name under the female head of Romania. Which I imagine / presume had to pass some sort of quality control.

I have encountered lots of them here in Romania seperated from the ribbon ring and I am not sure is it a sign of bad manufacture by various makers or just common mishandeling with time.

Some German seem to have prefered wearing the medal with the sword (i.e. the back) facing forwards on their medal bars. See picture recently featured on Ebay.

Kevin in Deva

[Cam_s]

Hello,

Here is my medal bar with this medal. It also has the sword facing out and it has P.Grant under the Female Head.

The flash makes the ribbons and the backing look a little to bright and new. What do you think of it? The loop attachment looks kind of poorly made, like the one from ebay.

Cam

[Kev in Deva]

Hello,

The flash makes the ribbons and the backing look a little to bright and new. What do you think of it? The loop attachment looks kind of poorly made, like the one from ebay.

Cam

Hallo Cam,

looks perfectly ok to me, typical of a Romanian issued medal to a German soldier, but I believe the Romanian ribbon on the bar is the German made one, which is thinner in width than the original Romanian Ribbon to be more in line with the size of German ribbons. Only way to be sure is to measure it.

In all a nice set

Kevin in Deva, Transylvania, Romania

[Cam_s]

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the reply and the kind words.

I know this isn't the right forum but I don't want to go through and repost everything again. I picked this up at a rummage sale for alot less than I would imagine it being. How much would the set approximatly be since it was issued to a German and not a Romainian.

Thanks,

Cam

[Kev in Deva]

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the reply and the kind words.

I know this isn't the right forum but I don't want to go through and repost everything again. I picked this up at a rummage sale for alot less than I would imagine it being. How much would the set approximatly be since it was issued to a German and not a Romainian.

Thanks,

Cam

Hallo Cam,

my opinion and using prices I see on the net as a guide, the KVK II Class about 20 Euro, the Romanian Medal (which is very common, the rare ones are with battlebars on the ribbon) 13 - 15 Euro, and the bar 8 - 10 Euro, so in total I would think its worth 40 - 45 Euro, again it depends on the desireability and the availability of the item.

As I said thats my personel opinion, other forum members may feel free to contradict me

Please feel free to tell us what you paid

Kevin in Deva.

[Cam_s]

Hello,

I paid in Cdn money so it was not the same as Euro's. I paid about 30 Euros for it.

Thanks for all of the help.

Cam

[Kev in Deva]

I came across this picture online, it depicts the Romanian Royal Period

"Crusade Against Communism 1941" medal with battle bars:-

BASARABIA

BUCOVINA

ODESSA

CRIMEEA

CHERCI

SEVASTOPOL

STALINGRAD

CAUCAZ

Kevin in Deva.

[paul wood]

Kevin,

Sorry to sound a bit of an ignoramus but were these bars ever issued with the medal, I have seen many examples of the medal but never one with a bar, or are they like the British WWI naval bars, proposed but never issued.

Paul

[Carol I]

The bars were described in the decree establishing the medal and there are award certificates mentioning the bar (see below), so one could assume they were issued with the medal.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Carol I

[paul wood]

Thank you so much for showing the document.

Paul

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin,

Sorry to sound a bit of an ignoramus but were these bars ever issued with the medal, I have seen many examples of the medal but never one with a bar, or are they like the British WWI naval bars, proposed but never issued.

Paul

The battle bars for this award do exists they come in two types a silver version and a bronze version,

they can be classed as scarce to rare, not because so few were issued, but, because so few were kept,

this medal was essentially awarded for killing communists on the Eastern Front,

not exactly a memento you want to keep around when the country (Romania) was under Soviet Occupation.

Kevin in Deva.

[Carol I]

The battle bars for this award do exists they come in two types a silver version and a bronze version

The different metals were supposed to reflect the extent of the recipient's participation in the campaigns.

[paul wood]

Thank you both for your explanations, I understand now why you don't see them.

Paul