Bavarian officer - cavalry I presume

[Robert Noss]

Got this nice photo last weekend.

He is wearing riding boots with spurs, I think he is cavalry.

Isn't the type of sabre for cavalry ??

A close up of his ribbons:

Note that there is a thin little rope coming out of his jacket. I suppose there is his monocle - look at his right eye - he seems to have worn a monocle for many years.

Detail of the sabre:

My questions:

Cavalry - what kind of cavalry ?

Is he a veteran of the 70/71 war ?

Why does he wear the ribbon for the IC 2nd class in his buttonhole AND as a ribbon-bar or is this another decoration ?

Thanks in advance

Robert

[Guest Rick Research]

AAAAGGGG!!! NO NAME!!!!! That's definitely the 1870 War Medal being worn as a "reduced wear" single ribbon bar (no 1897 or 1905). If only he had signed this!!!

[Ulsterman]

Is that a "1" between the pips on his shoulder board?

[dwmosher]

Robert

Based on the curved sabre and basket shape of the sword, your Bavarian officer was either in the artillery, train or perhaps a veterinarian. Looking at the dark colors of the piping on the tunic and cap, I would presume he was artillery. With the numeral 1 on his boards vs the cypher for FAR 1, I would also presume he was a reservist. The muted cording on the boards indicate the picture was taken post 1915.

Dave

[Guest Rick Research]

It is made tricky as I look at it because:

1) he is wearing the cockade of a REGULAR, not a Reserve or Landwehr officer, and

2) his shoulder boards are those of any of the above categories on "active" duty, rather than what I would expect in someone his age--

the very thick, dark Vs on his boards of a recalled from retirement ausser Dienst war's duration officer.

It looks like a "1" on there to me too

which does not help with the strange "war security" published Bavarian award rolls. His actual unit would have nothing to do with what is shown as his Personal Nachrichten unit.

[Daniel Murphy]

Definitely a "1" on the boards, but he is not artillery. The sword he carries is of the style used by the train battalions and other misc. troops. Artillery swords have a "P" shaped guard, not a basket hilt. If he were a veterinarian, he would have snake on the boards not a "1" and would have black collar patches with crimson piping. I believe he is a train officer of the 1st Bavarian Train Batt. The piping on the uniform would be red on collar and cuffs and blue on the front flap and back false pockets. This would fit since the front flap piping (blue)appears very light. His visor cap is probably of the 1916 pattern which was a very dark potash blue for Bavarian train. Earlier feldgrau Bavarian train visors would normally have had a lighter blue. Of interest is the fact he appears to be wearing an issue pattern uniform with the low collar, to which has been added his officer insignia. Issue uniforms were made with a raw edge at the bottom and this invariably curls under after a period of being worn, as shown here. The fact that the 1st Bav. Train Batt. was stationed in Munich does not hurt either.

Dan Murphy

Edited July 11, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[dwmosher]

Daniel

Although this chap could very well be a train officer (Rittmeister), you reversed your piping combination: Blue would be on the collar and cuffs; red on the front flap and rear scallops. Prussian artillery officers used the P-guard while this basket hilt sword pattern was used for Bavarian artillery, train and veterinarian officers. As previously stated, the lack of a reservist cross on the lower cockade is the problematic issue for identifying him as a reserve artillery officer. BTW the Bavarian FAR 1 (Prince Regent Luitpold) was also garrisoned in Munich.

Dave

[Robert Noss]

Thanks a lot for the infos so far.

Yes - it is a "1" on his shoulderboards.

One thing is still not clear to me. He is a veteran of the 1870/71 war, right ? Are all his ribbons from that war ? I mean the IC 2nd class ribbon in the buttonhole. The ribbon on his ribbon bar is not for the IC, I can see now the third color in the middle (sometimes you can see things better when they are large on a computer screen).

Kind regards

Robert

[Guest Rick Research]

No-- the button hole awards are certainly WW1 EK2 and the M1913 frontline Bavarian Military Merit Order.

WHY he is not wearing ANY of his other ribbons--

1897 Centenary Medal, 1905 Luitpold Jubilee mEdal, and probably a Bavarian Reserve-Landwher long service ribbon...

I could not even guess. His own bizarre personal fashion style.

He may have been so young he stayed at home during the 1870 war and only got the steel medal, but even so he would have automatically received the 1897 and 1905 for that service.

If it was a different STYLE of photograph/card, I'd think he was just an old WW1 officer wearing, weiredly, a single Hindenburg Cross ribbon that way-- but that is most definitely a wartime era photo.