Imperial Russia General Staff Academy Badge on Ebay

[Ramblinfarms]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=WDVW&rd=1

Here is one for sale out of Israel. What do you think of it? The photos are poor quality and the bidding is private.

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Chris,

I saw that piece to.

To me the silver stamp looks cast in

Imp. Russian silver was stamped after casting or die cutting.

see pic.

George

[Jacky]

After having browsed through his ebay-site I noticed that he sells a lot of copies....

Maybe is this a copy too!!

Picture looks strange for something old...

Just my 2 cents.

[GeorgeCL]

Heres another silver mark to compare..

This one on a one piece wreath style.

George

[Ramblinfarms]

Here is a link, and a couple of photos of one for sale out of the Military antique shop in Estonia:

http://www.militaryantiqueshop.com/view.php?id=335

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Chris,

I dont like the lack of detains on the badge

The pebbleing in the oak/laurel leaves dosent look present and the odd wear on the Crown. Almost looks smooth.

Also If the item is stamped with silver marks you will usually notice a misshaping to the other side.

I done see it in the photos..

Details of some of my pieces

George

[GeorgeCL]

another

[GeorgeCL]

Not silver, but details are there..

george

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Here is a link, and a couple of photos of one for sale out of the Military antique shop in Estonia:

http://www.militaryantiqueshop.com/view.php?id=335

Reproduction - Look at the pebble finish on the back side. This indicates cast, not stamped. Also look at the blue finish behind the eagle, fresh. Early reproductions made about 10 years ago, the Russians experimented with trying to duplicate a black or blued finish by using gunpowder. These badges even today smell and taste of gunpowder. If your'e in doubt, smell and tast the badge. It works.

Edited August 4, 2006 by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Hi Chris,

I saw that piece to.

To me the silver stamp looks cast in

Imp. Russian silver was stamped after casting or die cutting.

see pic.

George

The fake artist of Russia are getting better at their trade. More detailing and handcrafting probably made by a Moscow jeweler last month. What they cannot duplicate is the gold finish. Badges were made with a gold wash finish. This badge is gold plated. A fake.

[Jacky]

Thank you very much for your reply,

If I may bother you with one question;

What is the difference between goldplated and gold washed, both in manufacture and as in appearance??

Kind regards and thanks in advance,

Jacky

[Ramblinfarms]

Gold painting has a uniform, glossy bright gold appearance, like a plating or gold-filled jewelry.

In period originals, "fire-guilding" was used, which was done with mercury. I can't get much more specific than that, other than the process is highly toxic, and not done anymore.

fire guilding has an unmistakable frosty gold appearance, almost like what you see on a mint proof gold coin. It is unmistakable. Go to the threads on Imperial German and look at some of the award medals that were done this way. You'll see what I mean.

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Greg,

Heres a couple better shots of the badge in question..

Its a Forestry school badge all gilt silver.

Pictures make it look shinier that it really is.

George

The reverse shows the multi piece construction.

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Hi Greg,

Heres a couple better shots of the badge in question..

Its a Forestry school badge all gilt silver.

Pictures make it look shinier that it really is.

George

The reverse shows the multi piece construction.

These jeweler made badges in which each laurel and oak leaf was individually made and attached to an oval ring are very nice in the workmanship. I have seen this construction in gold, silver and war time steel. However, I am also seeing fakes like these hitting the market. Because of the high value of what badges sell for today, fakes today are being made by jewelers to look the same. What a collector needs to observe is discrepencies in the finish. Bright gold finish on the front and dull, dirty and discolored in the rear. Calls for for closer inspection. Also, check the gold color. Fakes are appearing in yellow gold. Russian gold of the period is rose gold. Gold that has a pink red cast. The fakes are all yellow gold. I guess they have not figured out how to duplicate in a gold guilt / plating machine how to make the gold pink in color.

Edited August 5, 2006 by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR

[GeorgeCL]

HI Greg,

Was the finish on front and back are the same a rose pink color.

I enhance my photos to bring out details..the colors suffer..

With the deep concaive badges its hard to get a focused shot.

And boy are you right..the fakes are getting better and better.

Its been tough finding awards, badges etc that you dont second guess yourself at.

i've slowed down a bit and try to only purchase when i can handle the badge first.

And never never buy from overseas unless i know the dealer/collector.

Please keep posting we can all learn from your experience..

Thanks

george

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

HI Greg,

Was the finish on front and back are the same a rose pink color.

I enhance my photos to bring out details..the colors suffer..

With the deep concaive badges its hard to get a focused shot.

And boy are you right..the fakes are getting better and better.

Its been tough finding awards, badges etc that you dont second guess yourself at.

i've slowed down a bit and try to only purchase when i can handle the badge first.

And never never buy from overseas unless i know the dealer/collector.

Please keep posting we can all learn from your experience..

Thanks

george

George,

Personally, I think the construction of your badge is very good. I would say judging from the photos that it is genuine. Closer inspection is needed to evaluate the gold finish : Thickness - Is it gold plate or gold wash. Color - Yellow gold or Rose gold. Reverse side - color found on the back side. A lot of badge have been made in which the front is in brilliant color and the reverse is subdued and or blacken. Fakes will give off a nasty chemical or gunpowder taste and can even smell as they were recently done the past 10 years to achieve this type of look and finish.

Edited August 5, 2006 by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR

[Ramblinfarms]

Was the gold of the period always rose gold, even for guilded pieces? I know that the makers new how to make different gold tones. I have seen some badges with a combination of gold tones for an enhanced efffect. For example, isn't the dragon in the Moscow Guards Regiment Badge a green tone of gold?

BTW, welcome to the forum Greg, and thank you, and George, and all others, for sharing your much needed and much appreciated expertise. Collecting Russian Imperial appears to be as big, if not a bigger minefield than WWII German!

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Was the gold of the period always rose gold, even for guilded pieces? I know that the makers new how to make different gold tones. I have seen some badges with a combination of gold tones for an enhanced efffect. For example, isn't the dragon in the Moscow Guards Regiment Badge a green tone of gold?

BTW, welcome to the forum Greg, and thank you, and George, and all others, for sharing your much needed and much appreciated expertise. Collecting Russian Imperial appears to be as big, if not a bigger minefield than WWII German!

It depends. There were several makers of this badge. Variations to be found. Study each badge as a case by case.