ReserveOffizier Dr. Carl Meyer

[fregatte]

Gentlemen,

So far I have been unable to trace anything about my Grandfather, Dr.Ing Carl Meyer who died in 1933, participated in WWI (I still have his EK and 3more medals) and according to my father served in the Gardegrenadierregiment zu Fuss No 5. Could anyone help me further.

Thank you very much indeed.

[ccj]

Gentlemen,

So far I have been unable to trace anything about my Grandfather, Dr.Ing Carl Meyer who died in 1933, participated in WWI (I still have his EK and 3more medals) and according to my father served in the Gardegrenadierregiment zu Fuss No 5. Could anyone help me further.

Thank you very much indeed.

Sorry that I can't help but I'm sure someone here will be able to offer information. I'd like to see photos of your grandfather and pics of his medals. If you don't mind...

[Glenn J]

Hello fregatte,

Dr. Ing. Karl Meyer, Landbauinspektor, Hannover, Akazienstra?e 5 B (1911)

Leutnant d.R.: 20.7.01

Oberleutnant d.R. 10.9.10

Hauptmann d.R.: 11.11.14

5.8.14: Oberleutnant d.R. in Ersatz-Bataillon/G.G.R. 5

12.2.15: Train-Ersatz Abteilung 10, Stra?enbaukompanie Nr. 2

1.3.15: Stra?enbaukompanie Nr. 2 in the field.

Later Chef, Baudirektion 10. Armee.

EK1, EK2, BMVOX

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

BMV4X awarded to him on 19 November 1915.

[fregatte]

Thank you very much for the excellent help. Great add on in the family archive.

Danke

Fregatte

I took pictures of the nedals, but am unable to upload on your website.Too much Kb

[bob lembke]

fregate;

You have gotten information from two of the very best, who have wonderful research materials.

I have peeked in a few Ranglisten. I have not found him (the 99% absence of a first name, especially with a common family name, in Prussian Army documents of the period, is a severe problem - I was hoping that I would find him listed when he was on active duty), but I did see something that I hope is useful to you.

In 1879 (I was hoping to catch him as a very young Leutnant) there was no Garde=Regiment Nr. 5 of any sort, I believe.

As of 7. 5. 1900 there was a 5. Garde=Regiment zu Fuss, und auch ein Garde=Grenadier=Regiment Nr. 5. But no regiment as you described it. Neither had a Leutnant Meyer in 1900.

Welcome to the Club.

Bob Lembke

[bob lembke]

fregate;

Do you have a date of birth, or at least a rough idea of his age at a fixed point in time? With that, I may be able to find him in active service as a young Leutnant. I am guessing that he only did say two years on active duty, and then continued his education as a reserve officer. Glenn and Rick know a lot more than I do about the various career paths.

Bob Lembke

[Glenn J]

Bob,

you will not find any active service listed. He was commissioned as a Reserve Officer from the rank of Vizefeldwebel der Reserve on 20 July 1901. Consequently he appears for the first time in the 1902 Rangliste under the Reserve Officers of Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 5 (Landwehrbezirk Coblenz). His Patent was 20.7.01 S2s. He would probably have been around 23 years of age on first commissioning.

Regards

Glenn

[fregatte]

Hello Glen,

I am overwhelmed by your subtle knowledge. My Grandfather Dr.Ing Carl Meyer was born 31.May1875 in Stargard.he died 9 dec 1933 in K?nigsberg . He had been wouinded in WW I and had suffered therefrom ever since.

Again thank you all.

He also had a decoration from the F?rstentum of Waldeck 4. Klasse, which he had been awarded while constructing the Edertalsperre which is in Waldeck. The only Original decorations I have from him is the EK . the others are miniature ones for the formal civilian dress (Frackkette).

kind regards

Fregatte

[joerookery]

He would probably have been around 23 years of age on first commissioning.

I'm just trying to stay between the navigational beacons here -- if I am correct the top two guys on the list are very possibly following the career path of a one-year volunteer. Therefore, I find it difficult to pin down commissioning age without knowing some secondary and postsecondary education. This guy's age makes most sense if he had continued on with his education perhaps through university. However, a normal one-year volunteer could possibly be commissioned far earlier. Does his active year from 17 to 18. Goes directly into his two years commissioning training -- and commissioned in the reserves at the age of about 20.

Okay coaches what did I do wrong? I think I am right but clearly could have missed something.

[Guest Rick Research]

I have the roll for the WV4 from August 1913 on, and he does not appear. He is NOT shown with an award from Waldeck as of the May 1914 Prussian Rank List--

Here it shows that he had a Prussian Crown Order 4th Class (between 1907 and 1912) and a Prussian LD2 before the war which would have been exchanged for the XX Years "LD1" (he was probably an Einjahriger 1894-95) after the war.

Are you SURE the award is a Waldeck Merit Cross 4th Class and not the Prussian Crown Order 4th Class?

As far as reserve officer commissioning went, don't confuse the laborious pre-war process with the 18 month wonders, start to commissioning, during the World War. On average a 1 Year Volunteer had finished high school with either an Abitur (19) or Prima (18). One year of active volunteer duty, in the get-it-over-with interval between high school and college, and on average 4 more years annual maneuvers before commissioning in the reserve was routine before the World War.

(1YVs who were NOT going on to college but had enough family income for the perks and reduced Volunteer duty could be older--often much older--but then, they tended to be the types who were NEVER commissioned before the war. They were not IYVs for the purpose of becoming a Reserve officer, but to avoid the drudgery and labor of being a rankless draftee.)

It could take longer for college students who had delayed their 1YV year and either did so in between college years or even put it off until after graduation. I have the paperwork for a military lawyer who was a dullard. He graduated with his Abitur at 21-- two years behind his classmates , then went to college, GRADUATED, and only THEN did his 1 Year service at age 25! Amazingly enough, he WAS commissioned after only 2 more annual duties, in 1891, but I suspect they either felt SORRY for him or were embarassed BY him. He was 28 when he got his shoulder boards, and had been a "commissioned" legal civil servant already for 3 years. (Having a Crown Prosecutor who was the Empire's Oldest In-Process Vizewachtmeister dR must have been rather... alarming, socially.)

For those of lesser income (and they would not have been in a Garde Regiment) it could have taken even longer. Don't forget that before the war there was a "means test," and anyone who could NOT foot the bills-- uniforms, horse stabling, bar tabs, mess bills--no matter how "qualified" was not commissioned, regardless of social suitability or talent.

But rule of thumb is 5 years from start of Volunteer year to dR commissioning as an average for normal mortals.

[fregatte]

Gentlemen,

this is the best I could get, it says XXV on the reverse side

My Grandfather went to the Hannover university and studied architecture, and got his Doctors degree in engineering. He later became OberBauRat.This is about all I know. My father once told me that Grandfather had to pay a considerable amount of money (which he had) to enter and maintain his commision with the Garderegiment.

Thanks again

Fregatte

[joerookery]

it could have taken even longer.

Thanks! Now that makes great sense. Two sessions were required but it could take years to finish the process. Somehow my narrow little mind overlooked that simple make sense solution. If I'm right the candidate did not get promoted to Vize until after he finished the first session. I am sure there were exceptions. Thanks Again!

[Glenn J]

Joe,

it could have taken even longer

and in the case of Herr Skalweit above it obviously did. Commissioned as a Leutnant der Landwehr I he must have been at least 27 on first commissioning. Although on the books of Landwehrbezirk Magdeburg, he was interestingly enough a School Director in Pittsburgh! He retired from Landwehr service on 18 August 1910 having in the interim been transfered to the jurisdiction of Landwehrbezirk D?sseldorf.

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

That can't be your grandfather's miniatures chain-- it must have belonged to another member of your family. The gold colored XXV Cross and 1897 Centenary Medal just showing after it indicate a career regular army or navy officer, alive in 1934/35 (Hindenburg Cross on the left).

A scan of the complete chain will resolve questions.

[fregatte]

That can't be your grandfather's miniatures chain-- it must have belonged to another member of your family. The gold colored XXV Cross and 1897 Centenary Medal just showing after it indicate a career regular army or navy officer, alive in 1934/35 (Hindenburg Cross on the left).

A scan of the complete chain will resolve questions.

here you have it. thanks indeed. I have no proof of what it actually shows.

regards

fregatte

[Guest Rick Research]

Yeaaahhh... is that an army Black Wound Badge on the end?

Who was a Major aD, or maybe a senior career NCO who came out as a Leutnant aD after 1918, in your families?

Definitely not your grandfather's. The awards don't match, and he died before the Hindenburg Cross was created.

[fregatte]

Yeaaahhh... is that an army Black Wound Badge on the end?

Who was a Major aD, or maybe a senior career NCO who came out as a Leutnant aD after 1918, in your families?

Definitely not your grandfather's. The awards don't match, and he died before the Hindenburg Cross was created.

Thank you again for your great help. Yes, we had another relative The brother in law of my Grandfathers wife was Major aD Willy Schneider. The picture is said to have been taken around 1910 in Posen. It could well have been that it were his decorations. way too late to ask anybody of their generation.

best regards

Fregatte

[bob lembke]

Fregatte;

I do not have the resources of some of the peoiple assisting you, but I have a fair collection of Ranglisten, weaker (sp?) from 1900 to 1910, more complete from 1910 to 1914. Do you want me to poke thru them and see if I can trace his militaty career over this period?

Bob Lembke

[fregatte]

Fregatte;

I do not have the resources of some of the peoiple assisting you, but I have a fair collection of Ranglisten, weaker (sp?) from 1900 to 1910, more complete from 1910 to 1914. Do you want me to poke thru them and see if I can trace his militaty career over this period?

Bob Lembke

Hello Bob,

I would be very glad. I have no idea about his career.

regards

fregatte

[bob lembke]

I would be very glad. I have no idea about his career.

regards

fregatte

Fregatte;

Poked thru my Ranglisten, which are spotty in the first decade of the 20th Century. I will give you an "as of" date, rank, decorations, and, importantly, the Bezirk to which he reported as a reserve officer. Others who have given help know much better, but I guess that the Bezirk is near to where Karl Meyer was living or working that year. In all of these points in time he was a reserve officer of Garde=Gren.=Regt. Nr. 5.

6. 5. 06. - Lt. d. R., Bezirk Coeln, no orders.

6. 5. 10. - Lt. d. R. with the highest seniority, Bezirk Hannover, has the Prussian Royal Crown Order 4th Class.

1. 5. 11. - Oberleutnant d. R, (low seniority, of course), Bezirk Hannover, same order as above.

6. 5. 12. - Oblt. d. R., Bezirk Hannover, has the order as above, plus the Landwehr Service Decoration 2nd Class (LD2).

6. 5. 14. - Oblt. d. R., Bezirk I Cassel, orders as above.

Hope that that is of interest.

Bob Lembke

[fregatte]

Fregatte;

Poked thru my Ranglisten, which are spotty in the first decade of the 20th Century. I will give you an "as of" date, rank, decorations, and, importantly, the Bezirk to which he reported as a reserve officer. Others who have given help know much better, but I guess that the Bezirk is near to where Karl Meyer was living or working that year. In all of these points in time he was a reserve officer of Garde=Gren.=Regt. Nr. 5.

6. 5. 06. - Lt. d. R., Bezirk Coeln, no orders.

6. 5. 10. - Lt. d. R. with the highest seniority, Bezirk Hannover, has the Prussian Royal Crown Order 4th Class.

1. 5. 11. - Oberleutnant d. R, (low seniority, of course), Bezirk Hannover, same order as above.

6. 5. 12. - Oblt. d. R., Bezirk Hannover, has the order as above, plus the Landwehr Service Decoration 2nd Class (LD2).

6. 5. 14. - Oblt. d. R., Bezirk I Cassel, orders as above.

Hope that that is of interest.

Bob Lembke

thank you very much. You were a great help.

regards

fregatte