France Médaille de Sainte-Hélène [Second Empire]

[André G.]

Hello,

for my first topic here ,

I would like present to you the french "médaille de Sainte-Hélène". It is a award of the french IInd Empire (Napoléon III, 1854-1870),

established in 1854 by the emperor Napoléon III, it awards the french veterans of the napoleonic's campaigns between 1792 and 1815.

This medal was produced in 400 000 copies.

Often the ribbon on this decoration is remplaced (by the sellers) by the ribbon of the Croix de guerre (more easy to found than the ribbon of the Ste Helen's medal).

PS:

Sorry for my poor english I am a young French

[Guest IMHF]

Very nice, looks like it was mounted before?? Do you have any medal bars with this medal attached to it;)

Lorenzo

[Ulsterman]

Nice! Not only French though- all members of the Grande Armee.

Have you seen any certificates for it?

[André G.]

Very nice, looks like it was mounted before?? Do you have any medal bars with this medal attached to it

Hello Lorenzo,

thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, I don't have the medal bar. This decoration come from the family of my father but I have no information on the recipient (on the side of my mother's family it is the opposite, I have the information on the recipient, but I don't have found the medal)

Nice! Not only French though- all members of the Grande Armee.

Have you seen any certificates for it?

Thank you for your information (and nice picture), I didn't think this medal awarded also the foreigner veterans of the napoleonic's army but it seems logical. I have already seen a certificate for this medal, it is not very scarce (the box is scarce!), but, currently, I don't have picture of this document. The next time I see a certificate, I will post a copy of the document here.

Edited August 17, 2010 by André G.

[Owen]

Hello,

for my first topic here ,

I would like present to you the french "médaille de Sainte-Hélène". It is a award of the french IInd Empire (Napoléon III, 1854-1870),

established in 1854 by the emperor Napoléon III, it awards the french veterans of the napoleonic's campaigns between 1792 and 1815.

This medal was produced in 400 000 copies.

Hi Andre,

Nice example of the medal - I have an interest in this medal and have an original box - you might be interested in the pictures I posted on this forum of the box etc:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44740&st=0&p=413788&#entry413788

Regards, Owen

[CUSSONNEAU]

Hello

No bar for this medal created by imperial decree, August 12nd 1857 ; but sometimes worn with the ornamental bar of the badge of the philanthropic society of the brothers-in-arms of the First Empire, instituted in 1840.

Regards

Cuss

[Owen]

Cuss, thanks for posting these pictures...it is interesting to see this bar (have not seen it before). Regards, Owen

[PKeating]

Never seen these before! Thank you for showing them.

PK

[TacHel]

WOW!

I had never before seen or even heard of the clasp(bar). Looks AWESOME! Thanks for the info!

[Odulf]

I didn't think this medal awarded also the foreigner veterans of the napoleonic's army but it seems logical.

This medal was presented to foreign veterans, with a certificate!

[Tim B]

Really beautiful examples!

Tim

[Owen]

Just wanted to share this recently bought medal....a Ste Helene medal with an Eagle ...eagle looks to be old, but haven't seen one on a ribbon before - maybe someone else has?

Regards, Owen

[TacHel]

Just wanted to share this recently bought medal....a Ste Helene medal with an Eagle ...eagle looks to be old, but haven't seen one on a ribbon before - maybe someone else has?

Regards, Owen

The ribbon looks bran new... Leaves me to doubt about how long that eagle has been there...:whistle:

[Owen]

The ribbon looks bran new... Leaves me to doubt about how long that eagle has been there...

Yes, you are quite right...the ribbon is certainly new - that isn't really the point.....

The eagle looks to be old (from the back etc) and it has certainly been added to the ribbon, but my question is - has anyone has seen one one on a ribbon before (or anywhere else for that matter)?

Many thanks...

[azyeoman]

Just wanted to share this recently bought medal....a Ste Helene medal with an Eagle ...eagle looks to be old, but haven't seen one on a ribbon before - maybe someone else has?

Regards, Owen

I believe it's original. I've got a very similar but slightly smaller eagle on an original ribbon. I suspect it's from the same society mentioned above, but a less expensive version; perhaps for other ranks.

[Owen]

Many thanks for your interesting comment - are you able tp post a picture of yours?

[Jef]

Hello,

Have a medal with a strange kind of damage. The ball suspender lost its tiny latin cross, although this is not a very fragile part.

Kind regards,

Jef

[Veteran]

The broken crosses are occasionnally observed on the Sainte-Helene Medal.

Some were certainly broken accidentally, others were possibly removed deliberately. There may have been an explaination to this, but I have never come across anything very convincing.

It's up to each of us to decide how they feel about such medals.

[Jef]

The broken crosses are occasionnally observed on the Sainte-Helene Medal.

Some were certainly broken accidentally, others were possibly removed deliberately. There may have been an explaination to this, but I have never come across anything very convincing.

It's up to each of us to decide how they feel about such medals.

Thank you for your answer, Veteran.

Jef

[azyeoman]

Here's one on an original ribbon.

[Owen]

Here's one on an original ribbon.

Great to see the Eagle on an original ribbon. Looking closely at the three different Eagles posted here - there are quite notable differences between them (particularly the way the wings, legs and head are positioned. Not sure what this means, but I have a sense that (stylistically) yours is closer to the Eagles posted earlier in this thread by Cussonneau (so it makes me wonder about the one I have)::

Edited February 5, 2012 by Monkey

[Owen]

I thought some of you might be interested in the Sainte Helene medal and associated documents I have relating to an interesting Surgeon of Napoleons marines - Major Jean-Joseph Marie Guichard, a military Surgeon who served with the 106th and 37th Line Regiments.

I am carrying out some (rather slow) research but (so far) find him described as having 58 years of military and civil service, surviving 5 campaigns, including service on board the Fench 74-gun Temeraire Class Frigate 'Ajax' (described in an action in November 1813 against the British Fleet blockading Toulon) and being a prisoner of war. Born in 1783 (in Toulon), he joined the Marines (106th Regiment), at Toulon, in 1807, qualifying as a Surgeon 3rd Class, and then rising through the Surgeon ranks as a Surgeon 'Sous Aide Major' with the 37th Regiment of Line and Surgeon Aide Major back with the 106th Regiment of |Line. In 1861 he became a Knight of the LoH and he died in 1866 .

The above is a very brief resume of Major Guichard, drawn from a number of internet references to him and of course the original documents in my possession:

• At this link (http://www.stehelene.../jjguichard.jpg), the quite excellent stehelene.org website provides a picture of Major Guichard wearing his Ste Helene medal and, through an advanced search on their website, provides two entries for the same man:
  
  • nom: GUICHARD
    prenom: Jean Joseph Marie
    annee_de_naissance: avant 1783
    commune_de_residence: Tillac
    departement: Gers
    code: F32
    pays: France
    grade: chirurgien
    regiment: Marine Royale
    divers: source perso : smetivier et hlannes/chirurgien, Chevalier de la Légion d'honneur le 11 juin 1861 (58 ans de services militaires et civils, 5 campagnes, prisonnier de guerre - Moniteur du 18 juin 1861), ancien chirurgien de marine licencié en 1815. décédé le 4 décembre 1866. Source : AN série F70 138 à 146/marié à Joséphine Thérèse Victoire Laugier décédée le 14-12-1834 à Tillac (32 - Gers)
    dossier :
    
  • nom: GUICHARDprenom: Jean-Joseph Marie
    pays: France
    grade: médecin chirurgien
    regiment: 106e de Ligne
    periode: 1799 à 1814
    divers: source perso : ebay (portrait/diplôme/medaille)/LH Enregistré registre 41 F° 196 N°98960 Le 29 juin 1861/entré au service de la marine en qualité d'officier de santé de 3° classe en 1807 puis devenu chirurgien sous-aide major puis chirurgien aide-major au 106eme régiment de ligne. Puis embarqué au grade de chirugien de 2ème classe sur le vaisseau l'Ajax de 1811 à 1814/Sa photo : http://www.stehelene.../jjguichard.jpg
    dossier : 36143
    

  [*]At this link (http://www.worthpoin...rvice-documents), there is a reference to 2 'Napoleon Marine' service documents describing the service of Jean Joseph Marie Guichard who served as a 2nd Class Officer in the Marines with service on the vessel Ajax, among other locations and ships, and service in St.Dominque and Germany.

  [*]Here is his Sainte Helene Medal and certificate:

  [*]

  [*]Here is part (the only part I have) of his original service record:

  [*]These are 2 close-up scans of the service record: and

  [*]I know this is a Ste Helene thread, but (for completeness) here are his LoH documents (found on the great LoH resource website http://www.culture.g...ore/leonore.htm ): and

There is much research to do to fill in the blanks on this (I believe) quite extraordinary man. If anyone has any other information about him, I would be very interested to hear.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Monkey

[azyeoman]

It's very nice to see one with so much paperwork. Usually you only see the original brevet for the medal. I've read that is because it was proof that would entitle the veteran to a pension, but I don't have proof for that statement. Does anyone know if that was the case?