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Persia Order of Nishan-i-limi ( Order of Arts & Science)


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#21 IMHF

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 17:40



There is a small piece online that I was looking at can you share some information about it.

Order of Humayun

Arthus Bertrand, I wonder if the ribbon is correct?


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Image of the reverse:

#22 JapanX

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 17:44

Some additional pieces

A low quality miniature?

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#23 JapanX

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 17:45

Another specimen on green ribbon

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#24 James Hoard

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 22:30

I see you are deadly serious about this "replacement hypothesis" James :)


It is perfectly obvious what happened here.

Like you, the dealer originally had no idea that this was a distinct decoration. He saw the lion and sun motif, assumed it was part of that order, so added a green ribbon.

Cheers,
James

#25 JapanX

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 23:03

It is perfectly obvious what happened here.

Like you, the dealer originally had no idea that this was a distinct decoration. He saw the lion and sun motif, assumed it was part of that order, so added a green ribbon.

Cheers,
James


Of course James, all these dealers - they all just like me... :lol:
And it is obvious of course.
24/7 they are busy with replacement process.
Everything that is not green was destroyed.
And this green ribbons ...
I guess there was some manufacturer to satisfy this dealer demand?

Cheers,
Nick



#26 James Hoard

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 22:58

Of course James, all these dealers - they all just like me... :lol:
And it is obvious of course.
24/7 they are busy with replacement process.
Everything that is not green was destroyed.
And this green ribbons ...
I guess there was some manufacturer to satisfy this dealer demand?

Cheers,
Nick


I don't know about ALL dealers, there obviously were some who sell and have sold this decoration with its actual red ribbon.

As for satisfying the demand for green ribbons, not a difficult task. Quite obviously any shade of green, moire, plain of indeed any weave whatever, does fine for the rest.

Cheers,
James

#27 JapanX

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 23:55

I don't know about ALL dealers, there obviously were some who sell and have sold this decoration with its actual red ribbon.


I guess these were the lazy ones - they either had idea (unlike me :)) or they just couldn't care less :)
Then, from my personal experience "dealing with dealers", we should observe red and multicolor ribbons all over the market.

As for satisfying the demand for green ribbons, not a difficult task. Quite obviously any shade of green, moire, plain of indeed any weave whatever, does fine for the rest.


It's not only the color that matters, it's the ribbon material, the size, the clasp or the tie, etc... Not to mention that some color shades are quite frequent and they are green one and they hold standing lions... And then please take a look at post #13... Looks like these ribbons came from the same manufacturer (as well as orders).
But of course there is a probability that all this ribbons are replacements. I just couldn't imagine such hard-working dealers :)
And I just don't understand why you are so confident, that ALL these ribbons are indeed replacements James...
Well, this last question was a rhetorical one James ;)

Cheers,
Nick

P.S. Could you please post photos of the orders with standing lions on multicolor ribbons, because I'd really like to see them (for a change!)

Edited by JapanX, 01 February 2012 - 00:37 .


#28 James Hoard

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:27

I guess these were the lazy ones - they either had idea (unlike me :)) or they just couldn't care less :)
Then, from my personal experience "dealing with dealers", we should observe red and multicolor ribbons all over the market.



It's not only the color that matters, it's the ribbon material, the size, the clasp or the tie, etc... Not to mention that some color shades are quite frequent and they are green one and they hold standing lions... And then please take a look at post #13... Looks like these ribbons came from the same manufacturer (as well as orders).
But of course there is a probability that all this ribbons are replacements. I just couldn't imagine such hard-working dealers :)
And I just don't understand why you are so confident, that ALL these ribbons are indeed replacements James...
Well, this last question was a rhetorical one James ;)

Cheers,
Nick

P.S. Could you please post photos of the orders with standing lions on multicolor ribbons, because I'd really like to see them (for a change!)


We are going round in circles.

- it is perfectly obvious that red ribbons belong to this order. You yourself have presented evidence to that effect.
- I have never claimed that the Order of Ilmi had multicoloured ribbons, so you are setting up a straw man.
- it is now pretty clear that the the standing lion is not the Order of Ilmi, but quite possibly the equivalent decoration of the Military War College.

There isn't a lot of point in continuing this discussion. You have a pet theory, not based on anything very much and you want to stick to it. That's fine, but not much use in advancing the discussion or contributing to the subject.

I leave you to it.

Cheers,
James

#29 JapanX

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:47

We are going round in circles.

- it is perfectly obvious that red ribbons belong to this order. You yourself have presented evidence to that effect.
- I have never claimed that the Order of Ilmi had multicoloured ribbons, so you are setting up a straw man.
- it is now pretty clear that the the standing lion is not the Order of Ilmi, but quite possibly the equivalent decoration of the Military War College.

There isn't a lot of point in continuing this discussion. You have a pet theory, not based on anything very much and you want to stick to it. That's fine, but not much use in advancing the discussion or contributing to the subject.

I leave you to it.

Cheers,
James


Well I don't have any theory at all James.
All I've got is yours information regarding different color ribbons for different classes of Lion and Sun orders. From 1872 firman.

Regarding this order arts&science - I observe two color of ribbons - red and green. And both ribbons look authentic to me.
You are thinking that every green ribbon on this order is a replacement (talking about pet theories :) ) and it's perfectly ok with me now, after all your weighty arguments.

"Setting you up"?! I am sorry if you've got that feeling from our discussion. I have no intention to "set you up" :) When I asked you about photos I mean any order (original lion and sun or arts order). I don't have such photos (and regulation for this art&science order). So naturally I asked you if you have ones.

I am afraid nothing is "perfectly obvious" or "pretty clear" with these orders.

All the best,
Nick

Edited by JapanX, 01 February 2012 - 22:53 .


#30 JapanX

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 17:09

And another example of this order.
This one looks like Halley work to me.

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#31 JapanX

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 17:12

And this one has very interesting execution of the rays.

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#32 JapanX

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:47

Finally I was able to find readable photo of the document for this order!

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#33 JapanX

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:52

Now we really need linguistic help from St. Petersburg :rolleyes:

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Edited by JapanX, 28 April 2012 - 12:59 .


#34 JapanX

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:52

Close up

#35 JapanX

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:50

Another exellent specimen.
Close relative of the piece that Michael showed to us in post #6 ;)

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#36 JapanX

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:56

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#37 JapanX

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 16:07

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#38 JapanX

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:34

Without comments ;)

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#39 JapanX

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:34

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#40 JapanX

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 16:48

;)

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