Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Another recently researched Glory 3, #443857. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 The award card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 The translation.Record card Order book No Б-1110711. Last name: NETSENKO2. First, middle names: Matvey Pavlovich3. Military rank: private4. Sex: Male5. Year of birth: 1906 6. Place of birth: Kursk region, Novo-Oskolsky district, Slonovka village7. Party membership since: Non- party8. Education: Elementary9. Nationality: Russian10. In the Red Army since: September 1943 to September 194511. Place of service (name of the unit) and position occupied when awarded: 911th rifle regiment, 387th rifle division ? senior submachine gunner12. Current place of service and position: Kramatorovka mine, Voroshilovsky district, - miner 13. Home address of the awardee: Golovinovka village, Voroshilovsky district, Voroshilovgrad region14. Record of previous awardsNames of orders, medals Their numbers Document numbers Ground for award Checked Glory 3rd class 443857 Temp cert. 882902 Order to 387th rifle division No 012/N of July 1, 1945 Signature of awardee (signed) ________________________Data correctness and signature of awardee Voroshilovsk district Military Commissar attested by: Lieutenant Colonel (signed)November 5, 1947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 The Glory 3 recommendation, part 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Part 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 The almost-illegible reverse, part 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Part 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 And the translation:AWARD CITATION1. First, middle and last names Netsenko Matvey Pavlovich 2. Rank Red Army man 3. Position, unit Rifleman of the 7th rifle ???, 1273rd rifle regiment, 387th rifle Perekop division. Is recommended for the order of Glory 3rd class 4. Year of birth 1906 5. Nationality Russian 6. Party membership Non party 7. Participation in the civil war and other military actions aimed at the defense of the USSR (where and when) The Patriotic War since September 25, 1943 4th Ukrainian front 8. Wounds or contusions received during the Patriotic War Wounded on October 26, 1943, January ??, 1944 and on May 12, 1944 9. In the Red Army since September 25, 1943 10. Drafted by what district military commissariat Novo-Vasilyevsky district military commissariat 11. Previous awards None 12. Permanent home address (of the prospective awardee or his/her family) Voroshilovgrad region, Voroshilovsky district, Golovinovka village. Wife ? Netsenko Nadezhda Petrovna I. Brief description of personal feat or meritsNetsenko Matvey Pavlovich, Red Army man, had been participating in the Patriotic War since September, 25, 1943.On October 25, 1944, in the ranks of the 416th Taganskaya division he took part in battle near Melitopol where he was wounded.In this battle comrade Netsenko neutralized the enemy?s fire by means of his hand machine gun, killed up to 17 German soldiers. And when a sub-unit commander had quitted the ranks he courageously undertook commander?s functions and continued the battle.When breaking through the strong enemy?s defensive position near Sevastopol he repulsed 3 enemy?s counter-attacks by means of his machine gun and took 6 German soldiers and 1 officer.On May 12, 1944 in Khersonesku bay he neutralized fire of 2 enemy?s weapon emplacements by means of his machine gun and killed up to 8 German offices.In this battle he was wounded, but didn?t quit the battlefield, thus enabling our infantry sub-units to force a crossing over a river.Comrade Netsenko deserves the government award, order of Glory 3rd class.Commander of the 1273rd rifle regiment Guards Lieutenant Colonel (signed) /Deykin/June, 1945II. Conclusion of the Higher CommandAward with the order of Glory 3rd classCommander of 387th rifle Perekop divisionColonel (signed) /Barakhtenov/June 30, 1945III. Conclusion of the Army Military CouncilIV. Conclusion of the Front Military CouncilV. Conclusion of the Award Commission of the People?s Commissariat of DefenseVI. Award RecordAwarded with the order of Glory 3rd classBy order to the 387th rifle Perekop division No 012/N of July 1, 1945Chief of Personnel Department (signed) /Allakhverdov/June, 7, 1945 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Ed, That's another GREAT OoG III Citation!!! You just have to love these!!! Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Ed, That's another GREAT OoG III Citation!!! You just have to love these!!! DocAbsolutely, Doc. Did you catch that ". . . when a sub-unit commander had quitted the ranks . . ." bit?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Absolutely, Doc. Did you catch that ". . . when a sub-unit commander had quitted the ranks . . ." bit?! Another awesome grouping, Ed.I guess his commander "cracked". Very interesting. I have never seen this in a citation before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Interesting! The recapture of Sevastopol. Great story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Absolutely, Doc. Did you catch that ". . . when a sub-unit commander had quitted the ranks . . ." bit?! This is NOT correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) This is NOT correct.Yes, "Dudeman", what are you saying here??? Edited October 4, 2007 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 "...pri vybytii kommandira (incomplete word here)eleniye smelo vzyal komandovaniye na sebya i prodolozhal vesti boi."does indeed say"at the withdrawal/dropping out/departure of the commander (incomplete word) boldly seized command for himself and continued to lead the combat."If the commander had been wounded and withdrawn for that reason, I agree with the translator that this would have been worded differently. The verb here is the same used on the "Capture Of" medals, and use of seized/captured/TOOK (in that aggressive sense of the word) is a far different sense than if all his superiors being casualties, command devolved upon him as the ranking soldier. The implication here is that while somebody else MIGHT have taken command, HE was the one who did so.The phrasing suggests a moment of shock under fire, when in some sort of confusion but requiring an instantaneous reaction, he seized the initiative and led by example, carrying the day.The sense that I get from this wording suggests a very grim and summary fate for his panicked/"cowardly" superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephende Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 The Russian verb of motion used here carries the implication of going forward, advancing, proceeding. That would seem appropriate use when the writer is trying to contrast our hero's advance with the unfortunate failure to advance of his predecessor. You can only wonder at his fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 (edited) Netsenko and Gnitienko got their Glories in the ident 55th Rifle Corps at the same operation at the Crimea Dear Ed,great citation , what proves again, that the Order of Glory delivers the most heroic citations .Great coincidence:Sergeant Gnitienko http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5536 and Private Netsenko fought during the liberation of the Crimea in the ident 55th Rifle Corps, which consisted of the 87th, 347th (Gnitienko) and 387th (Netsenko) Rifle Divisions.Gnitienko got his Glory 3cl & 2cl at the Crimea (1cl during "Operation Bagration") for rescuing 4 comrades under fire (3cl) and for killing a large number of Hitlerites (2cl).Ed, whenever you intend to sell Netsenko's Glory 3cl, I might pay the best price .Best regards Christian Edited October 6, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 "...pri vybytii kommandira (incomplete word here)eleniye smelo vzyal komandovaniye na sebya i prodolozhal vesti boi."does indeed say"at the withdrawal/dropping out/departure of the commander (incomplete word) boldly seized command for himself and continued to lead the combat."If the commander had been wounded and withdrawn for that reason, I agree with the translator that this would have been worded differently. The verb here is the same used on the "Capture Of" medals, and use of seized/captured/TOOK (in that aggressive sense of the word) is a far different sense than if all his superiors being casualties, command devolved upon him as the ranking soldier. The implication here is that while somebody else MIGHT have taken command, HE was the one who did so.The phrasing suggests a moment of shock under fire, when in some sort of confusion but requiring an instantaneous reaction, he seized the initiative and led by example, carrying the day.The sense that I get from this wording suggests a very grim and summary fate for his panicked/"cowardly" superior.I never said the soldier didn't "assumed command". His commander, however, was "taken out of action" or "put out of action". This is a common, passive voice phrase and infers the commander was wounded, contused, or killed in action. To make the leap that the commander "panicked" is simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I never said the soldier didn't "assumed command". His commander, however, was "taken out of action" or "put out of action". This is a common, passive voice phrase and infers the commander was wounded, contused, or killed in action. To make the leap that the commander "panicked" is simply wrong.Another Russian speaker!!! :jumping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrysLariss Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) I also think that the conclusion that the commander have run away is a stretch here.I would translate this sentence this way: In that battle comrade Netsenko suppressed fire of ?? [perhaps there is a number near the left edge of the page - K.L.] weapon emplacements by means of his light machine gun, exterminated up to 17 German soldiers, bravely assumed command and continued the battle when a commander of the squad became a casualty. Edited October 12, 2007 by KrysLariss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 I know well, from my own experience, that translation is not an exact science. But neither is it a full-contact competitive sport. All I am interested in is getting an accurate understanding of what this guy did to get his medal. I am not overly interested in watching folks "count linguistic coup".Thanks to all for interest, guidance, and the various translations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Let me in, I can speak Russian too! Impossible to guess what exacly happenned to the commanding officer but if you want to get a feel on how this word/phrase is used I would suggest playing with the simple past tense. If you stick into google выбыл из строя you get stories about sports people with broken limbs who were put out of action temporarily. It is more instructive to try офицер выбыл из строя, this gives some interesting war stories. Typically, the phrase is used either in big-scale statistics, as in 'a half of the army was taken out of action' or, when applied to an individual, in the sense that he could not remain in the ranks (dead, wounded, etc). In one case I saw this phrase applied to a battleship which sank (I think). You could also try the opposite, офицер вернулся в строй, meaning he got back into ranks. Sergei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slava1stclass Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 (edited) I never said the soldier didn't "assumed command". His commander, however, was "taken out of action" or "put out of action". This is a common, passive voice phrase and infers the commander was wounded, contused, or killed in action. To make the leap that the commander "panicked" is simply wrong.To all: Concur in Dudeman's take. He, if anyone, should know.Regards,slava1stclass Edited November 6, 2007 by slava1stclass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) 2 different citations - only 1 Glory ?Gentlemen,due to the fact, that Gnitienko's Glories 3cl & 2cl http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=229303 had been earned in the ident 55th Rifle Corps at the Crimea, I went through Netsenko's citations again and found an interesting fact.In my opinion we have in the Netsenko-case 2 different and seperated (time & location) citations:- 25th to 26th of october 1943 Melitopoland half a year later- 8th to 12th of may 1944 Sevastopol & ChersonBoth events fullfill the regulations for getting an Order of Glory and the first Order of Glory 3rd class had been confered to senior sergeant W. S. Malyshev at the 13th of november 1943, so it would have possible to award comrade Netsenko with a Glory 3cl.Another point is, that he received his Glory 3cl more than a year later at the 1st of july 1945.I think, that Netsenko should have got a Glory 3cl for Melitopol and a Glory 2cl for Sevastopol & Cherson .So, Ed's Crimean-Glory contains two medals .Best regards Christian Edited December 31, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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