India General Service Medal and Bar

[notned]

Evening Gents,

Just arrived today !

A nice IGS with Waziristan 1919-21 bar

Named to 1598 SEP WADHAWA SINGH.3-152 PJBS

Comments appreciated!

Also please show your own examples with the varying bars available for this medal.

Cheers

Paul

[deptfordboy]

Nice medal Paul,

Here is my example plus bar "Afghanistan NWF 1919", awarded with a WW1 pair to 240868 Alfred Taylor, Private in the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Ed_Haynes]

Do you realise what you are about to unleash??

OK, part of the IGS 08 type collection:

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 1

OK, OK, all of us knew this time had to come. While this is a fairly common medal, I think it is vastly underrated and has good research potential. For the record, I am showing one of each type plus some interesting multi-clasp singles.

I do not have a "Waziristan 1925", though I know there are some out there named to Indians. Watching and waiting . . . .

All are, of course, the Calcutta Mint variety; not sure I have ever touched a Royal Mint striking. And, given my collecting intersts, I'm not sure I ever shall.

1- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908 - 4303 Sepoy Jiwan Singh, Q. O. C. Guides

2- Edward VII - bronze - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908 - 58 Grasscutter Mirza 21st Cavy

3- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, ABOR 1911-12 - Langri Assa Singh No 1 Co 1st S. & M.

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 2

4- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, ABOR 1911-12, AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919 - 237 Bellow Boy Allah Ditta 7th Mule Corps

5- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919, WAZIRISTAN 1921-24 - 187 Lce Naik Maula Bux 51 Camel Corps

6- Edward VII - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1908, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1930-31, MOHMAND 1933, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1935 - 825 Sepoy Kaka Singh 45th Sikhs

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 3

7- George V, 1st variety - ABOR 1911-12 - 1331 3rd Cl S.A.S. Gujjarmal Varma I.S.M.D.

8- George V, 1st variety - bronze - ABOR 1911-12 - 493 Cooly Agame Rai No 1 Gurkhali Carrier Corps

9- George V, 1st variety - AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919 - 1348 NK ATMA SINGH, R I S LCRS (this is also seen with the naming in engraved running script)

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 4

10- George V, 1st variety - AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919, MALABAR 1921-22 - 4523 RFMN. BAHADUR SING RAWAT, R. GARH RFLS.

11- George V, 1st variety - AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919, WAZIRISTAN 1919-21, WAZIRISTAN 1921-24 - 2917 SEPOY UDHAM SINGH, 37/DOGRAS.

12- George V, 1st variety - AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919, MAHSUD 1919-20, WAZIRISTAN 1919-21, WAZIRISTAN 1921-24 - 904 DVR. ALLAH DAD, 6 P. BTY.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 5

13- George V, 1st variety - MAHSUD 1919-20, WAZIRISTAN 1919-21 - 1227 SEPOY RAGHUBAR DATT, SURVEY OF IND. DEPT.

14- George V, 1st variety - MALABAR 1921-22 - 295 NK. NAIN SING NEGI, 1-18 R. GARH RFLS.

15- George V, 1st variety - WAZIRISTAN 1919-21 - 6232 RFMN. PARMA NAND, 3 K. RFLS.

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 6

16- George V, 1st variety - WAZIRISTAN 1921-24 - 791 SEP. DITTU RAM, 2-13 F. F. RIF.

17- George V, 2nd variety - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1930-31 - 8105 L-NK. SULTAN SINGH, 2-7 RAJPUT R.

18- George V, 2nd variety - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1930-31, MOHMAND 1933 - 10670 SEP. HANRCHAND SINGH, 1-11 SIKH R.

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 7

19- George V, 2nd variety - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1930-31, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1935 - 4316 SEP. MIR BAHADUR, TOCHI SCOUTS.

20- George V, 2nd variety - BURMA 1930-32 - 26826 DVR. BHAGAT SINGH, 7 MTN. BTY.

21- George V, 2nd variety - MOHMAND 1933 - 12166 SEP. SHAM SINGH, 3-11 SIKH R.

[Ed_Haynes]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 8

22- George V, 2nd variety - MOHMAND 1933, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1935 - 11094 SEP. MAGHAR SINGH, 5-12 F. F. R.

23- George V, 2nd variety - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1935 - 4099 SEP. MOHAN SINGH, 1-16 PUNJAB R

[deptfordboy]

Blimey Ed, that's a humbling display - thanks for sharing!

Gilbert

[peter monahan]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 3

7- George V, 1st variety - ABOR 1911-12 - 1331 3rd Cl S.A.S. Gujjarmal Varma I.S.M.D.

8- George V, 1st variety - bronze - ABOR 1911-12 - 493 Cooly Agame Rai No 1 Gurkhali Carrier Corps

9- George V, 1st variety - AFGHANISTAN N.W.F. 1919 - 1348 NK ATMA SINGH, R I S LCRS (this is also seen with the naming in engraved running script)

Ed

Lovely, especially the bronze "Abor"! I'm rusty on my I.A. nomenclature, though. What's a "3rd Class S.A.S. in the I.S.M.D." ??

I'm guessing it's NOT "Imperial Service Mule or Medical Dept."

Peter

[Ed_Haynes]

More could be added, groups, etc. But I am sure that is ENOUGH.

But then there are the other IGSMs (1799, 1854, 1895, 1936, 1947) and the PGSM (1947) . . .

See, I warned you, . . .

[peter monahan]

IGS 1908 Type Collection - part 7

19- George V, 2nd variety - NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1930-31, NORTH WEST FRONTIER 1935 - 4316 SEP. MIR BAHADUR, TOCHI SCOUTS.

20- George V, 2nd variety - BURMA 1930-32 - 26826 DVR. BHAGAT SINGH, 7 MTN. BTY.

21- George V, 2nd variety - MOHMAND 1933 - 12166 SEP. SHAM SINGH, 3-11 SIKH R.

Ed

The ribbon on Sham Singh's gong is kind of grizzly looking. Is that natural fading or a locally made ribbon?

P

[notned]

I echo Deptfordboys comment! Blimey!

Thanks Ed!

Nice to see the visual difference between the George V 1st and 2nd varieties!

Thanks for showing us!

Regards

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

I'm rusty on my I.A. nomenclature, though. What's a "3rd Class S.A.S. in the I.S.M.D." ??

I'm guessing it's NOT "Imperial Service Mule or Medical Dept."

Hi, Peter - He is a 1st Class Sub-Assistant Surgeon in the Indian Subordinate Medical Department. Any others? Ed

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed

The ribbon on Sham Singh's gong is kind of grizzly looking. Is that natural fading or a locally made ribbon?

P

Well, both actually. All the ribbons were locally made (or, before 1923, made in China); and many of these ribbons were shipped back to the UK. There is a tremendous range in colours, qualities, weave. Remember, for British medals, they were remounted with some frequency and almost NEVER come to the market with original ribbons. The fixation on ribbons that our German-medal-collecting cousins have is (and was) absent here. I was able to get a couple of rolls of what is probably WWII-era ribbon for the IGS 08 off one of the old New Delhi military tailors as his son was shutting down his father's shop in the 1980s after 50 years in the trade. But other clips have come from other sources. And some of these have ugly modern ribbon. There is only one tailor in Delhi who makes the old ribbons by the old hand-weaving methods in silk to the old standards and he is in his late 80s. Trying to get him to make as much as possible before . . . . (No, he cannot do good 1914-15 Star ribbon -- he says sadly that the only weavers with that skill were Muslims and all went to Pakistan.)

I could go on, and on, and on, and . . . .

[Ed_Haynes]

Inspired by this, I have started a thread on the earlier IGS medal, the India Medal 1895.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8008&hl=

Is there any interest in going earlier or later?

[Vatjan]

Here's one I brought back from a trip to Myanmar a couple of years ago.

324 SUB. INSP. MG. Po Saing Police Dept.

[Ed_Haynes]

The seriest continues with the IGS 1936 at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8010

[Mossy]

This is certainly one of the more underrated medals out there. Bit of a pity really.

Quick question for Ed though, what orders collar is George V wearing in the medal (the collar with the elephants) and what does Kaisar-I-Hind mean?

Here's mine. Named to a Pte J Murns in the Prince of Wales Volunteers.

(Full naming on medal: 16622 PTE J MURNS P W VOLS)

Sam.

[Ed_Haynes]

This is certainly one of the more underrated medals out there. Bit of a pity really.

Agreed, this remains one of the real bargains out there. Still to be had by the kilo (literally) in The Old Country.

Quick question for Ed though, what orders collar is George V wearing in the medal (the collar with the elephants) and what does Kaisar-I-Hind mean?

Grand Commander of The Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire - G.C.I.E. - changed to the Garter (silly irrelevanct thing) on the new second image.

Kaisar-i-Hind = Emperor of India (more or less).

Here's mine. Named to a Pte J Murns in the Prince of Wales Volunteers.

(Full naming on medal: 16622 PTE J MURNS P W VOLS)

Sam.

Interesting that it seems to be a Calcutta strike, not an exotic native manufactured piece from the UK.

[notned]

Ed,

Whats the difference between a Calcutta Strike and one from the UK??

Cheers,

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

Whats the difference between a Calcutta Strike and one from the UK??

Cheers,

Paul

Let me see if I can find an image - both Gordon and the MYB have the images. I do not have the gora version, so . . . .

The UK version has silly little curly-queue ears on either side of the suspension. How cute, how unnecessary.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Mossy]

For anyone interested, i know i am, here's a list of the bars for this medal. Well, most of them.

Abor 1911-12

Afghanistan 1919

Burma 1930-32

Mahsud 1921-22

Malabar 1921-22

Mohmand 1933

North West Frontier 1908

North West Frontier 1930-31

North West Frontier 1935

Waziristan 1919-21

Waziristan 1921-24

Waziristan 1925

If there are any others, add 'em on the list, as well as any little notes, ie whether one bar is much rarer to Indian troops than to European and so forth.

And who says British medals suffer from a lack of variety.

Sam.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Mossy