Tsend Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 In 1940, after the passage of the Choibalsan's Constitution in Mongolia, there was a need to reform the existing award system including the design of the awards and their types. The design of all three orders (RBCV, RBLV and OPS) have been changed and two medals (Honorary Medal of Combat and Honorary Medal of Labor) and one badge (Badge of the Hero) have been newly instituted. The process of designing and manufacturing of the new orders and medals took months of back and forth between the Presidium of State Small Khural and Mongolian Embassy in Moscow (in fact with the Moscow Monetny Dvor). Below is the copy of one of the telegrams sent by Chairman of the Presidium of the State Small Khural G. Bumtsend to Mongolian Ambassador to USSR J. Sambuu at the end of 1940. The telegram had a bearing on the ultimate design of the Badge of the Hero, Order of the Red Banner of Military Valor and the Combat/Labor medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsend Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 In 1940, after the passage of the Choibalsan's Constitution in Mongolia, there was a need to reform the existing award system including the design of the awards and their types. The design of all three orders (RBCV, RBLV and OPS) have been changed and two medals (Honorary Medal of Combat and Honorary Medal of Labor) and one badge (Badge of the Hero) have been newly instituted. The process of designing and manufacturing of the new orders and medals took months of back and forth between the Presidium of State Small Khural and Mongolian Embassy in Moscow (in fact with the Moscow Monetny Dvor). Below is the copy of one of the telegrams sent by Chairman of the Presidium of the State Small Khural G. Bumtsend to Mongolian Ambassador to USSR J. Sambuu at the end of 1940. The telegram had a bearing on the ultimate design of the Badge of the Hero, Order of the Red Banner of Military Valor and the Combat/Labor medals. Translation from Russian into English Urgent To Comrade Sambuu, Trade Representative’s Office, Moscow We have the following answers to your telegram # 119: 1) The diameter of the Combat and Labor Medals should be 36 millimeters. The diameter of 32 millimeters that you have proposed is small, taking into consideration the ornament. 2) We agree that the ornament on the red enamel that runs along the edge of the medal should be gold-plated. 3) The saber of the horseman should have sheath. 4) Bas-relief of Sukhbaatar on the Badge of the Hero should be made of platinum and if possible no more than 20 millimeters in size. It would not look good in profile but in half-turned position. 5) The shields with numbers denoting the consequent awards should filled with blue enamel. Bumtsend (Signed) Stamped with the Stamp of the Presidium of the State Small Khural of the Mongolian People’s Republic # 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thank you for posting this! It is wonderful to get an insight on the creation process. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexF Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Interesting document. On a related subject - has anybody seen any document or has any information about the faith of all 1940 type Red Banners of Military Valor consecutive awardings (2nd, 3rd, 4th awards)? From the latest book, by Urnukh, it sounds like most were recycled, and only a few transferred to museums. Plus, there is knowledge that there were 150 of each manufactured. They are obviously very rare, and one would have a hard time finding even a photo with veteran wearing any 1940 consecutive Red Banner... Would be very interesting to know how many of these beauties actually survived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 On a related subject - has anybody seen any document or has any information about the faith of all 1940 type Red Banners of Military Valor consecutive awardings (2nd, 3rd, 4th awards)? From the latest book, by Urnukh, it sounds like most were recycled, and only a few transferred to museums. Very few of these "shields" were ever awarded ... As far as I know many of them were stored in depository of Central Bank of Mongolia (together with "ordinary" 1940 Red and Labour Banners) for years. As for the famous recycling ... The real question is how many orders were recycled (I heard only numbers in kg`s) and what exactly this "recycling" means?! Actual remelting or couple of blows by hammer?! Usually these 4th awardings (that came into market) have enamel splits on the banner Check out this piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Or this disgraced (by same hammer and pretty long time ago - judging by the patina) unissued Labor Banner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) Obviously not all unissued 1940 pieces were melted ... And not all 1940 pieces were "hummerized" Regards, Nick Edited September 10, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexF Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi Nick, What is the serial number of your Red Banner 4th award? The reverse scan is very blurry, can't make out the number... My question still remains, though. Yes, I'm aware that they hammered some of those unissued orders, which afterwards somehow made it to the market. I also have a very similar scan of RB 4th award, as the one you've posted (with mutilated enamel on a banner). However, I'm mostly interested in figuring out how many of 1940 RB's (consecutive awards) still out there. From what I gathered so far, and this is not, by any means, final, looks like 3rd awards are the rarest, since there are only 3-4 known (observed), 2nd awards are right behind them, with about 5 observed, and, for whatever reason, 4th awards are by far the most "common", if I may say for these are all very rare. However, somehow, 20+ of 4th awards were observed, and yes, most with chipped enamel on a banner... Looking for any additional information or scans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 However, I'm mostly interested in figuring out how many of 1940 RB's (consecutive awards) still out there. Do you mean you are interested in figuring out the exact number of survived consecutive awards? I wonder how do you expect to figure out this number By documents?! Hope you understand that all these 2nd, 3rd and 4th awardings were stolen? Most likely they officially were "melted", "destroyed" or still "lying in the vaults"... By the way, 4th shield is indeed the most numerous among all of them The number of this 4th shield is 3?. That`s the only photo that I have. The number of Red Banner that I posted in the other thread is 370 (do you asked for reverse scan to figure out the number of this award?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexF Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Nick, I just wanted to find out approximately how many survived, since they seem so rare I couldn't find a single crisp photograph with anybody wearing any of the consecutive RB's (except one of Choibalsan). Too bad your blurry scan is the only thing you have . I know the story how they appeared on the market, together with 1945 type sets of 1-2-3-4, but that's besides the point. I asked for reverse of the Red Banner, because just like in soviet awards, all the differences are on reverse, and you've posted obverse only... Beside the obvious (serial number), there are mintmarks (which can be different, and located differently), hand-writing and location of serial number, specific to variation and/or Mint, etc. Please check out my site to get a better idea... www.mongol-screwbacks.com ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I know the story how they appeared on the market, together with 1945 type sets of 1-2-3-4, but that's besides the point. If you say so ... Beside the obvious (serial number), there are mintmarks (which can be different, and located differently), hand-writing and location of serial number, specific to variation and/or Mint, etc. Please check out my site to get a better idea... www.mongol-screwbacks.com Hmmm... I have no idea! Will certainly try to get a better one Talarhal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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