ww1 tunic

[blueman]

what do members think about this seaforth highlanders ww1 tunic with pilots wings ??

[gavinmedals]

Great tunic complete with insignia and medal bars. Are you able to attribute it to an individual?

[blueman]

hi not yet trying,its not really my area...kev

[Harry the Mole]

Does it have a WW1 date inside? It could just as easily be 1920's. Still a nice tunic though!

[blueman]

hi harry still waiting for it

[theironduke1]

Hi Kev

This is a 1917 pattern service dress tunic for Scottish Regiments wearing Kilts (The version for trews had longer skirts). It differs from the 1908 pattern in that the cuffs have no loops but are plain gauntlet style as the ranking was now on the shoulder straps. You identified him as a Seaforth. Was that from the buttons?

The ribbons which I am able to identify are as follows:

(Row 1 L-R) Military Cross / Airforce Cross (Original pattern Awarded April 1918) / Arctic Expedition 1912-1914 / King Edward's South Africa Medal 1901-2

(Row 2 L-R) India General Service 1908 / 1914 Star / British War Medal / Victory Medal

(Row 3 L-R) Territorial Efficiency Medal 1908 / Unidentified / Unidentified.

Seems as if this was quite an adventurous individual, I wish one could find a name, rank or something. He was obviously a Royal Flying Corps officer who had maintained his Scottish regimental identity with his tunic. Especially since had had no collar badges. If he served in South Africa in 1901, he was probably nearing or in his forties by the end of the war, so this may have been his final service. The territorial efficiency medal may mean that he was in the Territorial Force of 1908. I doubt if there were that many RFC officers seconded from the Seaforths with this medal array so it may be worth looking it up.

If anyone doesn't agree with my assessment, please post what information you maight have. But this is all for now.

Bruce

Edited April 2, 2013 by theironduke1

[peter monahan]

One would think that the Arctic Medal, added to the MC, AFC and Territorial Medal would pin it down pretty definitively once you find some eligible names. It must represent quite the career! Good luck with the hunt.

Peter

[gavinmedals]

Hi Kev

This is a 1917 pattern service dress tunic for Scottish Regiments wearing Kilts (The version for trews had longer skirts). It differs from the 1908 pattern in that the cuffs have no loops but are plain gauntlet style as the ranking was now on the shoulder straps. You identified him as a Seaforth. Was that from the buttons?

The ribbons which I am able to identify are as follows:

(Row 1 L-R) Military Cross / Airforce Cross (Original pattern Awarded April 1918) / Arctic Expedition 1912-1914 / King Edward's South Africa Medal 1901-2

(Row 2 L-R) India General Service 1908 / 1914 Star / British War Medal / Victory Medal

(Row 3 L-R) Territorial Efficiency Medal 1908 / Unidentified / Unidentified.

Seems as if this was quite an adventurous individual, I wish one could find a name, rank or something. He was obviously a Royal Flying Corps officer who had maintained his Scottish regimental identity with his tunic. Especially since had had no collar badges. If he served in South Africa in 1901, he was probably nearing or in his forties by the end of the war, so this may have been his final service. The territorial efficiency medal may mean that he was in the Territorial Force of 1908. I doubt if there were that many RFC officers seconded from the Seaforths with this medal array so it may be worth looking it up.

If anyone doesn't agree with my assessment, please post what information you maight have. But this is all for now.

Bruce

Hi, agree that it looks like a KSA ribbon on the ribbon bar, however I do not see a QSA ribbon. This seems a bit odd, given that I was always led to believe that the KSA was not awarded without the QSA or do I have it wrong? Cheers Gavin Apologies omitted to mention that it is great tunic.

Edited April 3, 2013 by gavinmedals

[Chris Boonzaier]

Could it be that the arctic medal ribbon is in fact just the underlay for a removed QSA ribbon ?

[gavinmedals]

Hi Chris, that could very well be. In addition I have taken a bit of a closer look and suggest that the second ribbon is perhaps the horizontal ribbon for the DFC, as the stripes are more blue. Cheers Gavin

[Mervyn Mitton]

I think I agree with Chris - the white area should probably be the QSA. When you think about this group an Artic medal would

seem very out of place ? Mervyn

[gavinmedals]

Hi Chris, that could very well be. In addition I have taken a bit of a closer look and suggest that the second ribbon is perhaps the horizontal ribbon for the DFC, as the stripes are more blue. Cheers Gavin

In addition the Arctic Medal would most likely have been mounted after his campaign medals?

[theironduke1]

The assumption that what I thought was the Arctic Medal may be something else is probably justified. As suggested, it would have come after the WWI medals and the only expeditions it could have been for was the 1912-14 Mawson, mainly because the others were Scotts ill fated and Shackleton's which he almost certainly wasn't on. (If he were, that jacket would be worth a fortune). The KSA medal could NOT have been worn without the QSA medal either. I almost wish we could get a closer look at the ribbon set.

[Graham Stewart]

The KSA medal could NOT have been worn without the QSA medal either. I almost wish we could get a closer look at the ribbon set.

Not entirely true - among those serving in South Africa were Volunteer Service Companies, these were men of Volunteer Bn's who opted to serve for 'one year' only and as such were Discharged from their Volunteer unit and re-enlisted into the VSC's under those T&C's enabling them to serve. Once the years service was completed they were returned home, Discharged again and re-enlisted back into their Volunteer unit. In most cases men of the VSC's were only ever eligible for one or other of the S.A.Medals, depending on when their service began and ended.

[theironduke1]

Not entirely true - among those serving in South Africa were Volunteer Service Companies, these were men of Volunteer Bn's who opted to serve for 'one year' only and as such were Discharged from their Volunteer unit and re-enlisted into the VSC's under those T&C's enabling them to serve. Once the years service was completed they were returned home, Discharged again and re-enlisted back into their Volunteer unit. In most cases men of the VSC's were only ever eligible for one or other of the S.A.Medals, depending on when their service began and ended.

You may very well be right Graham. I got the information from H. Taprell Dorling's book "Ribbons and Medals", 1974 No. 97 and I quote ..... "It was given to all officer's and men, doctors and nursing sisters who were actually serving in South Africa on or after 1 January 1902, provided thay had completed eighteen months war service on that date or afterwards completed it before June 1 1902. Bars inscribed 'SOUTH AFRICA 1901' and 'SOUTH AFRICA 1902' were given with it, and those who did not qualify for the King's medal were eligable to receive them with their Queen's medals. The green, white and orange ribbon of King Edward's South African Medal is never (My Italics) seen except in conjunction with the red, blue and orange ribbon of the Queen's, for if a man was awarded the former, he must also have been eligable for the latter."

As with many forthright statements, Dorling may have overlooked the issue of the volunteer service companies.