Two Iron Crowns on one medal bar. Why?

[Trooper_D]

In a thread on the Orders, Decorations and Medals of The Imperial German States forum (post #4 of the link below), we are discussing a medal bar which contains two Iron Crowns, one of which has laurel leaves. My question is, why would the awardee include both, rather than simply including the higher class? As one has laurel leaves, would it be considered an award distinct from the peace time version? I would welcome comments, please.

Original thread

Edited October 8, 2015 by Trooper_D

[dedehansen]

I have no problems with two Iron Crowns,

the one with the laurel leaves is a wartime awarded piece

the other one is a peacetime awarded one, so you could wear both on a bar.

Regards
Andreas

[Trooper_D]

the one with the laurel leaves is a wartime awarded piece

the other one is a peacetime awarded one, so you could wear both on a bar.

Thank you for your response, Andreas. I now discover that UK practice agrees with you, in at least one instance. If I may quote from A Manual for the Wearing of Orders, Decorations and Medals (London: Spink, 2005), p. 39,

Order of the British Empire
The OBE, MBE, BEM (Military and Civil Divisions) for Gallantry appear on the bar in the same 'order of wear' sequence for non-gallantry awards in the Order, i.e. an OBE (Civil) will appear before an MBE (Military) awarded for Gallantry. Awards in the Order which are of the same level, e.g. an OBE (Military) and an OBE (Civil), should be arranged with the earlier award first.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Trooper_D

[tifes]

Good afternoon,

Well, I wouldn’t say that´s crystal clear issue at all. First of all that medal bar seems quite strange to me. I am not an expert on German States medal bars but it would be good if somebody could explain why 3 first German orders (MMJO, Bavarian MVO and EK II) are suddenly “cut” by foreign decorations (Austria-Hungary, Braunschweig and Hungary after 1920) and then it continues with other German ones (Bavarian and Prussian) and then at the very end…EKO III peace version.  Wouldn’t it be correct to have German decorations first and only then followed by those awarded by foreign states? There must be some order of precedence.

Issue of Iron Crown is not that simple. Order of the British Empire couldn’t serve for this purpose.  If somebody was awarded by Order of Iron Crown III Class in peace times (without war decoration) and consequently in a war, a war decoration would be awarded then he would be having just Iron Crown III Class with War Decoration, not both of them. Officially there could be worn only one Iron Crown Order at the same time (highest one)  and that one with War decoration would have precedence. Furthermore it must be underlined that Iron Crown III. Class peace version (before 1914) was  high decoration, usually given to the A-H army officer in the rank of colonel for successfully commanding the unit of the size of regiment or something comparable. In the case of foreign army officers  it might be possible to get such decoration when serving as high military diplomat (military attaché or deputy military attaché) accredited in Vienna,  take significant part in some “common undertaking” with Austrian- Hungarian Army like large military manoeuvres, war campaign etc. or for some special merit. Colonel Ritter von Scherf, before the WWI, was “just” major of Bavarian Army and he was never been involved in anything with A-H Army (at least I didn´t find anything), which would allow him to obtain EKO III. Moreover looking at that EKO III peace version at the very end of the medal bar, it is really some cheap copy from late times and definitely it has nothing to do with the original, even bronze gilded. EKO III with War Decoration paired with Military Merit Cross III. Class is, on the other hand, very nice WWI award piece in a good quality.  

Regards,

Tomas           

[Trooper_D]

Thank you for your thoughts, Tomas, particularly,

 If somebody was awarded by Order of Iron Crown III Class in peace times (without war decoration) and consequently in a war, a war decoration would be awarded then he would be having just Iron Crown III Class with War Decoration, not both of them. Officially there could be worn only one Iron Crown Order at the same time (highest one)  and that one with War decoration would have precedence.

This makes complete sense to me. For my further education, are your comments based on the statutes for the Iron Crown? Do you know if those statues are available on-line?

[tifes]

Dear Trooper_D,

Of course, those facts, which have stated, are stipulated by the EKO Statute, particularly in para 12. Pls find picture of it and my courtesy translation from German below.

§12 When the by Order awarded person obtains higher grade of the Order then he puts off a decoration of the lower grade. Awarding of the Order with War Decoration has the same effect of laying down the Order of the same grade without War Decoration. Person awarded by the Order with war Decoration cannot be awarded by the same grade of the Order without War Decoration.

This status as well as other ones, including pictures and some charts could be found in one of the most classic work of Austrian- Hungarian Phaleristics: Das Ordensbuch der gewesenen Österreichisch-Ungarischen Monarchie written by Heinrich Michetschläger. It is basically last one and most authentic publication of the period, which was ever made. Must for everyone who is serious about A-H decorations. It was for free downloading at the webpage of the Institute for Military History in Prague but I can’t find a link anymore. However it´s stated there that downloading is possible in the section “Annex”.  

http://www.vhu.cz/book/michetschlager-heinrich-f-das-ordensbuch-der-gewesenen-osterreichisch-ungarischen-monarchie-orden-kreuze-ehrenzeichen-medaillen-denkmunzen-dienstzeichen-matrikelzeichen-amtsabzeichen-etz/

Maybe somebody can help. The digital copy of the book has quite volume, 71 MB, so I don’t know how to help you with this.  

Regards,

Tomas           

      

[Trooper_D]

Of course, those facts, which have stated, are stipulated by the EKO Statute, particularly in para 12. Pls find picture of it and my courtesy translation from German below.

Thank you for a most informative post, Tomas. Heinrich Michetschläger's book looks to be a 'must have'! I also cannot find a link on the website you pointed us to. I wonder if they deleted the download because of copyright issues? 

[tifes]

Well, I think that they are just migrating e-library. I would say it`s just temporary shut down. Book was published in 1919 and I think that copyright exclusivity ceases out after 75 years (EU law). I can check it if I am right and if it´s so then I can upload it at some server and provide you with the link.  

[Elmar Lang]

It's a pity that the Michetschläger wouldn't be downloadable. This book is really a must for any collector.

Only, maybe due to the situation when the book was prepared, there are some little "mistakes" in the illustrations; one, putting a very early copy of the Erzherzog Albrecht's Erinnerungsabzeichen; well visible due to the not 90°-crossing marshal's batons and the position of the Archduke's crown.

The text is most useful, though.

E.L.