VC89

Thank you Hendrik to clarify that. May I ask where you found that information? Vincent

It seems you are right, GM1, they are smaller. According to Borné (again) the measurements of the POW-bar is 40 x 2 mm and the mothers-bar is 40 x 4 mm. It seems the recipient of your medal was a pow for 2 years, so ignore my comment . Still, if anyone has an anwser (or opinion) to Jef's question about the possibility of more mother-bars on one medal I would love to hear it. (see post #49) Vincent

Never really thought about it ... it could be, but personally I think it is just one to show that your son(s) was(were) awarded the medal. I believe this because othrwise, I think, we should see more medals with two (or more) bars. Maybe we can find the correct anwser if someone can get his hands on the State Gazette of Belgium from 19 march 1920 and 21 may 1920. Vincent

Nice collecion GM1, I especially like the two with the russian bars (they are quite rare). But it seems to me that the one in the third one on the second row is not correct. It looks like it has 4 bars (silver with black enamel) that would be put on a medal when the recipiant was killed and the medal worn by his mother. Such a bar could be worn on a Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18 but it should be just 1. Here it looks like it are 4 front bars but they aren't. Just so you know Vincent

According to Borné (if my French is not failing me ) the ribbon is from between 30 July 1856 (it's creation) and 28 December 1859 (when they chaged the ribbon). It's the official version of the ribbon and it should be 37 mm wide (Green: 1 mm / amaranth: 6 mm / green: 23 mm / amaranth: 6 / green: 1 mm). The diameter of the medal should be 35 mm. (there are two drawnings of the medal in his book, with one bigger than the other, but I don't see a different diameter mentioned in the text. It could be 30 mm like the Civic decoration between 1867 and 1918 but it is not mentioned (also the civic decoration between 1867 and 1918 can have a diameter of 35 mm). To anwser TacHel: There should be no difference (except the small difference between the manufacturer). In his chapter of the Civic Decorations, Borné refers to the decree of 30 July 1856 for the shape. Vincent

Thanks, IrishGunner. I searched it with google, and used Utica in stead of Utah (a slip of the tongue ... or fingers in this case ), but seems I missed those topics you found.

I just received this pieces in with the mail. It are two US military buttons.. One of the buttons is marked on the back: AMERICAN EMBLEM CO UTAH NY. All I can find of this company is that they produced buttons during WW I but nothing else. Did they also produce them before and/or after WW I? The second one has no markings but is made out of some hard plastic. Both buttons have the great seal so they are produced after 1902 but I hope someone here can give me a more specific date or period than 1902-present. Button 1: Button 2: Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Well in that case you have a nice piece for your collection.

A very nice bar. Where do you find those houses you clear? Too bad the Knight in the order of Leopold and the Order of the Crown misses it's center but the Knight in the Royal Order of the Lion and the Silver Service Star are rather rare. Because I read it in an other topic that you clear houses and sell the content ... are they for sale?

I am sorry if I offended you in any way, but you see a lot of merchants who try to "update" their goods (like adding medal bars so there is more history attached to it). I agree that the regulations about this matters were not strictly applied, but I find that on this uniform it more looked like "Let's put some bars on it without caring if they are correct or not". I also find it odd that the WW I medals are behind the WW II medal. You said you found it in a house clearance, ok, I believe you. As I said above, It was possible for one man to receive all of those decorations. I only found the order of they are put on odd, especially on a uniform of an officer. I believe the second part of the sentence you refer to is "otherwise I have some doubts about the level of Majors in the Belgian Army :)". I see you are from Antwerp so I will say in dutch what I tried to say in that sentence (I agree it's not very clear): "anders heb ik mijn twijfels over het niveau van majoors in het Belgisch leger". I just mean by it that I expect a major in the Belgian army should be able to put his decoration (more or less) in the right order. Vincent

They are not wrong. They can be found on a military uniform and all of those medals can be awarded to the same man, but they are in the wrong order (and some should be removed due there is a higher decoration of the same order). I will explain it medal by medal: Top row: Golden Medal in the Order of Leopold II: (I'm not sure but I think I see something in the center of the black stripe) -> Should be removed because there is a higher decoration (Officer) of the same order. Officer in the Order of Leopold: -> Should be the first bar. Officer in the Order of Leopold II: -> Should be the second bar. Second Row: Medal of Palmes in the Order of the Crown (can't see the center but the ribbon indicates that is on of those two) -> Should be removed because there is a higher decoration (Knight) of this order. Commemorative Medal of the War 40-45: -> Should be after the Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18 Military Cross 1st Class: -> Should be after all the war medals Third Row: Unknown Medal: Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18: -> should be after the Victory Medal Firecross -> Should be after the War Cross 14-18 Fourth Row: Knight in the Order of the Crown: -> Should be after the Officer in the Order of Leopold. Knight in the Order of Leopold: -> Should be removed because there is a higher decoration (Officer) of this order. War Cross 14-18: (I think but I'm not sure) -> Should be after the Knight in the Order of the Crown Victory Medal: -> Should be after the Firecross The right way to wear this should be: Officer in the Order of Leopold - Officer in the Order of Leopold II - Knight in the Order of the Crown - War Cross 14-18 - Firecross - Victory Medal - Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18 - Commemorative Medal of the War 40-45 - Military Cross 1st class. (Note that the unknown medal can be placed somewhere in between. I just can identify it on this picture)

I hope some merchant tried to screw someone otherwise I have some doubt about the level of Majors in the Belgian Army

If it is the Medal of Freedom I have found a book that could tell us more about the owner of the uniform. The title is "The US Medal of Freedom awardes to Belgians for Services during World War II" and is sold by the "Studiekring voor Faleristiek". It is written in English and cost 35 euro's (excl. the cost for sending it). I don't have the book but if someone does he can take a look and search for the Major-General. Or some interested people can buy it. Link to the site of the "Studiekring": http://www.skf-vzw.org/nederlands/index2.html or the direct link: http://www.skf-vzw.org/nederlands/publicatie/Freedom/Medal-of-Freedom.jpg (if someone want to buy it they have to send an e-mail to the e-mail adress mentioned on the bottom left).

Some remarks/questions: Could the US Medal of Freedom be rewarded retrospectively? The medal was created in 1946 but the uniform shows no decorations of the second world war. If the major general was active during that war he would have received (at least) the Belgian Commemorative Medal of the War 1940-1945. Could it be an unofficial medal instead of the US Medal of Freedom? The Belgians are not very strictly with the rules of displaying medals on uniforms (for example: the Medal of Liège was allowed, the Four Days of the Yser Medal was allowed in some cases and I have a bar of an official and an unofficial (veteran) medal bound together in my collection). I also find it weird that he didn't receive a Belgian medal for the "act" that he did to receive the US medal. Also shouldn't the crossed swords be attached to the bar of the Order of Leopold instead of the Order of Leopold II? I thought that the crossed swords should be attached to the medal of the highest order. (but the previous remark could awnser that)

Someone told me once that the "I" was used during the reign of Leopold I (1831-1865) and Albert I (1909-1934) (not sure during the reign of Leopold II (1865-1909). So if this is true your officer's medal is pre-1934.

It crossed my mind but the WWII War Cros has three stripes on each side and this buttonhole pin has only two.

These pins just arriverd with some other medals but I can't identify all of them. Hopefully someone can help (or correct) me. First line: Order of Leopold I (civil, Knight) Order of Leopold II (Knight), Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18 and (not sure) Civil Decoration 14-18 (unknown class). Unknown Second line: Order of Leopold I (civil, Grand Cordon) and Order of Leopold II (Grand Cross). I'm not sure if it is a silver or gold bar under the cockade so it can be a Commander in both orders. Civil Decoration for Long Service in the Administration (gold medal) I think this one has too many possibilities. Third line: Probably a pin from a POW federation War Invalide Pin (FNI, Fédération Nationale des Invalides) Fire Cross with FNI pin

Thx for the replies ... and my search after a Portuguese Victory Medal continues :(

Wartitles are divided in "Time" and "Personal Merit" For "Time" a wartitle is received after a period of time of service (for Korea: 6 months = 1wartitle) or when present in a unit during combat (battles recognized by royal decree) count as 1 wartitlle. For Korea there is also one wartitle for being, uninterupted, present in a unit from 1951 till 1953. I guess something like that also apply for 40-45. For "Personal Merit" the wartitles are medals that are received during the war (recognized by royal decree(s)) and a wound stripe. For Korea (again) a person needed 6 wartitles for a bronze crossed swords, 8 for a silver one and 10 or more for a gilded silver one.

A nice thing to know is that there are three kinds of crossed swords: bronze, silver and gold. The color (not sure if it is also the material) depends on the "wartitles" the recipient received. unfortunately I haven't seen the royal decree of it's creation so I can't tell how many "wartitles" you need for a silver one.

I know a corporal gets a Military Decoration 2nd class for 10 year of service and a 1st class for an additional 5 years. It is likely they receive a medal of a chivalry order for 20 years of service. I don't know if I'm misunderstood but I don't say the medal is a fake. All I say is that the crossed swords shoudn't be worn on a Silver Medal (sorry for my mistake in my previous post) in the Order of Leopold II. However it is possible that the original recipient of the medal put this crossed swords on his medal. Vincent

Nice medals Graf. I never seen a knight (or higher) in the order of LII with crossed swords under or above the crown. Are you sure those are real?

I know a corporal gets a Military Decoration 2nd class for 10 year of service and a 1st class for an additional 5 years. It is likely they receive a medal of a chivalry order for 20 years of service. I don't know if I'm misunderstood but I don't say the medal is a fake. All I say is that the crossed swords shoudn't be worn on a Silver Medal (sorry for my mistake in my previous post) in the Order of Leopold II. However it is possible that the original recipient of the medal put this crossed swords on his medal. Vincent

I hate to say this but I think your Golden Medal in the Order of Leopold II with crossed swords 40-45 isn't correct. Based on the Royal Decree of 24 January 1994, creation of the crossed swords Korea, it says that the crossed swords must be worn on the highest decoration received in a chivalry order that is at least a Knight in the Order of Leopold II. It is most likely that the Royal Decree of 18 april 1983, creation of the crossed swords 40-45, say the same. Personally I would describe the Commemorative Medal 1870 -1871 as an uncommen medal (but I live in it's country of origin, Belgium) instead of a rare one. The earlier, unofficial, medal and the Commemorative Cross of the 1830 Volunteers are examples of medals that are much harder to find.

Is there a way to see when a medal is from a different maker or is it just lookking at both medals and trying to see some differeces? Also: is there a way to determine the maker of a medal when you don't have the original box? (book, webstie, ...)