Scowen

Good to hear from you again Mijke & of course cloth examples are acceptable. To be honest I've never seen one before so thank you for showing it. A lovely set indeed, do any of the pins have maker marks? Thanks for sharing them with us. Cheers Don

Hello again Sergey, good to have you on the forum again . Yes I think that it is a good one. They were originally gilded, but most of them have lost it over the years. Here is mine for you to compare. Merry Christmas Don

I thought that I would add an "in wear" picture of the Heer pin. Both of these HJ lads are wearing it. Cheers Don

A couple of great pictures Odulf, thank you for posting them. However I suspect that it is not an "Arbeits Dank" badge that he is wearing but rather the "RAD Honour pin" (Erinnerungsnadel), see here http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=13608 I'm very interested in the other pin he is wearing. It looks like the RAD Ostpreußen traditions cap badge, however the centre of the cross on the badge he is wearing shows a white area. The standard RAD Ostpreußen badge does not have this, see the attached image for comparison.

And one I've never seen before, Hillenbrand & Bröer, Ludenscheid. Double marked with their full name plus their initials "HB". They have also used Ges. Geschutz rather than the shorter version. Another interesting point, this is a tad smaller than the normal Abeits Dank pin coming in at 21 x 14mm rather than the usual 22 x 15mm.... Cheers Don

Thought that I'd add a couple more variations for anyone interested: Hermann Aurich, their correct symbol (as opposed to the fake form of this where the "H" looks more like a "B") is under the Ges. Gesch & hidden by the pin.

Thank you Erik, it is a nice shot. I picked it up for the Seegeltung badge, the only time that I've seen one in wear. The rest was a bonus.... Cheers Don

Thank you Gentlemen for your help, as you can tell, Navy isn't my area Cheers Don

I apologise if this is the wrong area, but I have a photo with a guy wearing a badge with an anchor which I am unable to identify & hoped that someone here may know. I can identify the other badges (Party badge, Reichsbund Deutscher Seegeltung & a NS Deutscher Marinebund breast eagle), but the other one I'm unfamiliar with. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers Don

A very interesting piece Pete. Ein Robinson was indeed a film released in 1940, see here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032994/ ignore the picture on the page as that is the incorrect one for the film, the studios are still there today. Cheers Don

Another point of interest is the name on the badge. As Uwe points out, it is for a local shooting association "Kreis-Schützen-Verband Kitzbühel", however in October 1938 ALL shooting clubs, guilds & societies, as well as all culteral groups (music & dancing etc) were brought under the umbrella of the "Standschützenverband Tirol-Vorarlberg". So it must be from the very early period to name it as a verband in its own right.... Cheers Don

So far I have not been able to locate any period information about these Joe, but having said that, any documentation from the Kleingärtner is very difficult to find. They are supposed to be for Wives & daughters..... Here are my two, silver & gold.

I really do not know what to think of it Joe. Part of me says "yes a tinnie", but the word "Meisterzeichen" makes me wonder. It's construction would indicate a tinnie...... More research is needed I'm afraid. Cheers Don

Hi Joe, I'm not sure, but so far I have only seen S&L marked ones. Here's another full size that I am sure is a fake. I do not like the RS marked types, nor the AK or "B" in a circle, but that is just my opinion. Cheers Don

Hi Pete, Sorry for my very late reply. Yes the second one is indeed a tinnie, however the first is the Meister Class (gold with oakleaves) grade given out at the Bregenz Kreisschießen. As I'm sure you know by now, these were achievement badges & a minimum score had to be attained to qualify to receive one. Thanks for showing it, I've known of the existence of this design but have never actually seen one. Very nice! Thanks Don

Very nice Alec. As far as I know, these are only found marked by Deschler..... Here's my stickpin version

it's very kind of you to say so Mike, thank you. Maybe you would be kind enough to share some of your pieces with us? Cheers Don

Hi William, Some nice pieces there, thanks for sharing them. Those WHW shooting pins are nice, I've seen a few different designs around over the years. A nice Sängerbund Westmark pin as well. It looks like there are stil some traces left of the gold on the wreath. Here are my Sängerbund Westmark pins, the standard membership, plus the silver & gold honour versions. Cheers Don

Moved as requested....

Some more info has recently come to light. As the link to my original thread I posted above has dissolved, here is a link to the thread on another forum with the original pictures & new info. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95044 Cheers Don

Hi Robert, I've no idea......... I've never seen this badge before, or seen the phrase "Meisterzeichen" used in this context. More research is required (just when I thought that I was getting to grips with these shooting badges as well ). It's very interesing that Danner was the maker & not one of the usual suspects seen on these Tirol badges (Klammer, Pichl or Poellath). Thanks for posting it Robert. Cheers Don

A very nice piece Robert & a new one for me. May we see the reverse please? Cheers Don

I wouldn't worry too much Joe. Try using natural light by a window rather than a flash, I find that works quite well, as long as it is not in direct sunlight. North facing or slightly over cast is better. Robert. Nice badge. The pin plate will be marked for Poellath, the only manufacture mark seen on this style. Cheers Don

Very nice Robert, & welcome back . I hope that you do not mind but I have moved your pin to a topic of it's own as it is a different Christian group to the others. I've often wondered myself why the Swastika is the other way round... Thanks for posting. Don

Hi again, Thank you for posting the extra images. I'm sorry for not making myself clear earlier, the badges I was referring to were the two large badges with serial numbers. Thank you also for giving the name you expected. Unfortuneately I cannot find that or anything similar in the records. So I suspect that your godfather obtained the badges from someone else. Maybe he knew the original owner, but he is not listed as receiving any badges in any of the the shoots, sorry. Now to the actual badges & the discrepancy of the badge/Ehrenkarte number. Over the years that I have been researching these shoots & the lists of awardees of the badges, I have occasionally come across instances where the same badge number appear to have been issued to two different individuals. I've never been able to find out how the actual pieces were given to the people who received, them but I suspect that the shooter mearly took his score card to a window & once checked, a badge was taken out of a large box full & given to him & it's number recorded with the shooter's name. If this is the case, given the number of people probably queing for a badge, it would be easy to make a mistake & record the wrong number etc. Until now I have never seen one of the actual Ehrenkarten involved with one of the errors. According to the lists badge #476 was unissued, however if we take a look at the numbers either side of this number we can see what has happened. Badge #473 was given to an Anton Ritzl #474 is listed for two people, Hans Eichenauer & Edwin Olinowetz... #475 is listed as being given to Toni Pfister, #476 is unissued #477 is listed for Josef Blersch. The fact that you have an Ehrenkarte #475 in the name of Edwin Olinowetz but badge #476 suggests to me that what happened is that a mistake was made while handing them out. Edwin could not have #474 because it was given to Hans Eichenauer, so was given #476. However in the confusion I imagine that Toni Pfister was given Ehrenkarte #476 but badge #475..... Only speculation on my part & without the other Ehrenkarten we will never know for sure. Edwin Olinowetz recieved the 3 Year Gaumeisterschütze in 1944 after receiving a numbered Meisterschütze badge 3 years running (1942, 1943 & 1944). Again, what is interesting here is that the number for his 1943 badge is not recorded, there is simply a "?" in the space in the lists where the number should be. This shows that they knew that he received a badge but for some reason the number was not recorded. So I cannot say for sure that #2238 is definitely Edwin Olinowetz's but I can say that #2238 is not listed as being issued to anyone else so it is likely to be his. Some background to the badges. To receive any badge a shooter had to attain a minimum score in a particular shoot, & depending on the score he would be given a badge in either bronze, silver, gold or gold with an oak leaf surround (like the two you have with Wehrmann on). There were three disciplines, Pistol, KK-Gewehr & Wehrmann, if a shooter attaind the gold with oakleaf grade badge in all three of these disciplines then he could have the large numbered Meisterschütze (which was originally gold coloured, but due to the zinc metal the colour is usually lost now). If the shooter received one of these Meisterschütze badges in three different years, then he qualified for one of the 3 year badges. The fourth time he was given a spange or clasp with "4 Jahre" on it to attach to the 3 year badge. The Landesschießen events had been held in Innsbruck, Austria for many, many years before the National Socialists came to power in 1938 (& still continue to this day). They just took advantage of the events & turned it to their advantage. I hope that this helps a to answer your questions a little, these particular pieces made it a little more complicated than usual. I'd be interested in seeing pix of the picture book you mention if you find it. Cheers Don