drclaw

Thanks Dr.L What a coincidence to find two folks on the forum who had chased after the same photo and the same order! Although I shouldn't be surprised. You are quite right that in the absence of an actual award document or a record listing Pouritch's decorations (have you come across such a list?), what we have is a coincidence of factors (Pouritch's career, the original cardboard box, the card ... ) strongly suggesting ownership. But is not rock solid proof so Fourth Class St Sava 'attributed to' Pouritch would probably be correct. It's interesting how much documentary information was available on the chap on-line - everything from League of Nation records, modern photographs of his Parisian residence, 1920s Time magazines and of course the original treaties wih him as signatory. Hahaha, I should say the same about the photo! Should you ever wish to sell it .... But I will get in touch with his grand-daughter who was looking for information on her famous ancestor. Cheers, Gavin

Hi Oamotme, There's quite a bit of variation in prices but I've seen these advertised for sale at upwards of 400 euros or more without the case. A cased set would be much more valuable. I believe that with the overthrow of the monarchy in 2008(?), most if not all of the royal orders have become obsolete. It is a beautiful order and one I've thought of picking up myself. Here's a link to the Nepal orders on Royalark.net. My link Gavin

Very nice, Megan. Thanks for sharing! :beer:

Beautiful Markus! I've been hanging out to see these having been tempted many a time on YJA. Each of these could well stand up as individual orders in their own right. I can certainly see the similarity to the Chinese Warlord / Early Republican medals. Is there much by way of reference materials in English on Japanese fireman badges? It'll be fascinating to discover which regions they were from, and if any of the designs have changed over time. Gavin

Stunning orders Markus! Beautifully made and in mint condition. I really like the variations between the different makers and would struggle if I had to name my preference. Both are superb examples of the jewellers craft. All you need now is a cased Commanders to go with your pair :D

Great link, Markus. INCREDIBLE eye candy! These certainly rank in the Top 10 list of the most beautiful and well crafted Orders of all time.

Hi Balkanphilia, A Lovely find and a superb order! Would you mind telling me how much these are going for these days? I've seen a lot of variation in prices that these are selling for. Would be interested in what you think would be a 'fair price' for a good example.

And here's a photo of the dashing young man himself. Taken around the time he was engaged to the Chicago heiress! Unfortunately, the original photograph has been sold or it would have made a perfect accompaniment to the order and calling card.

This arrived in the mail yesterday, Serbia Order of St Sava, 4th Class, from Elite Militaria based in Queensland, Australia. I've posted the ebay pictures as they are far better than anything I can take with my muppet camera skills. What was more interesting was that it came with an old calling card of the original recipient: BOJIDAR POURITCH Envoye Extraordinaire et Ministre Plenipotentiaire de R.M. le Roi de Yougeslavie 1.Boulevard Delessert 16e I've been researching him over the internet and he was Charge to the US during the 1920s, where he signed a Conciliation Treaty with the US. The US signatory was Frank Kellogg, of the famous 1928 Kellogg-Briand Pact that prohibited war 'as an instrument of national policy' except in matters of self-defence. In November 1926, he was engaged as "Count Bojidar Pouritch" to marry a Chicago heiress. The engagement was broken off two weeks later on the grounds that he was "not of noble blood"! In the late 1930s, he was Yugoslav delegate to the League of Nations, and Yugoslav Minister based in Paris. He lived at the Boulevard Delessert, which is just across the Seine from the Eiffel Tower near the Pont d'Iena, from 1936 until 1940, when he fled Paris with the fall of France (and Yugoslavia). He pushed for a Pact between the Little Entente (Czechoslovakia, Romania, Yugoslavia) and France to counter Nazi aggression against Czechoslovakia. This failed under Britain and France's policy of appeasement. He resided in the UK during the Second World War as part of the Yugoslav Government in exile, and didn't return home after the war when Marshal Tito took control of Yugoslavia. From US social security records, he moved to the US, was married, lived in Illinois with his wife, and died in Illinois in 1977. They had at least one daughter, who died in New York in 1998. He passed away at the grand old age of 86 in Illinois as a US citizen. What an interesting guy! Besides being engaged to a US Chicago heiress for 2 weeks, he was deeply emersed in international affairs in the 1920s and 1930s, and worked hard to counter the rise of Nazi Germany, only to be frustrated by France and Britain's policy of appeasement. I've also come across his grand daughter who posted a photo of him on the web, wanting information on her grandfather. Will try and make contact with her as she is on Facebook.

What a lovely medal, Megan! Thanks for sharing. It looks almost like one of the old Gothic carvings you'd find in a cathedral.

Heh heh, thanks Dieter! Yes, I haven't regretted buying these. And the joy of possessing them has continued long after the initial heart attack of the credit card bill has faded. I haven't seen many (any) cased / complete 5ths and 6ths kicking around. And would sure like to get my hands on those. Then I'll have to mortgage my house (even more) for a 1st and 2nd ... These Auspicious Clouds sure are rare. But the Pillars of the State are even rarer. There was a superb cased / complete 4th(?) class that ended up selling on YJA for around USD 1000. Gavin

Hi Josef, The 3rd Class was advertised on YJA as a 'Buy it now' price where it sat for a number of weeks. I probably paid more than I should (given no one bought it except me!) but I've not seen one since. In the last 2 months, I've seen two cased 4th Classes come up for sale, both on YJA. And no cased 5th or 6th classes. Certainly none on ebay or any of the more popular dealer sites. Dieter is the Oracle when it comes to keeping watch on these things so he might be able to comment. He's refrained from putting my purchases on the 'Unbelievable!' thread Good luck if you are hunting for one. Gavin

It's an interesting topic and certainly one open to subjective interpretations. For me, numismatic grading terms like 'fine', 'extra fine', 'extremely fine', etc, are more applicable to coins where the main detail is the relief / visibility of the design. It's less useful for ODM which have enameling and multiple constituent parts (and cases when it comes to Japanese orders). For example, a Rising Sun breast star with one of the points on the rays snapped off might still be 95% complete, but I certainly wouldn't consider it 'extremely fine'. I've seen orders described as 'extremely fine', 'excellent' or 'original' only to have enamel damage, key elements missing (e.g. an Egyptian Order of the Nile breast star with the crown missing!) or points broken or bent. Regardless whether it's intentional or just laziness on the part of a seller, it makes me think twice about buying anything from them. You just don't know what other 'surprises' you might discover when an item finally arrives. Conversely, I've purchased items described as 'good' or 'very good' when all it needed was a bit of soap and a toothbrush, and buffing up with a silver polishing cloth to make it 'near mint'. The dealers and sellers whom I support are those who provide full disclosure of any features that otherwise detract from an item being 100%, e.g. 'enamel damage at 5 o'clock of the medalion', 'old enamel repair', 'one arm slightly bent', etc. Potential buyers can then make their own mind. This is much more helpful to a customer than generic terms like 'excellent' or, the classic 'very good condition for its age'!

Thanks for sharing your stories, Lorenzo. What gets me passionate about collecting ODM is not just how pretty they are, but the tangible link they provide to the past. You really do feel that you're holding a piece of history in your hands. So the fact that you are actually there in Iraq, and finding items from Sadam's Palaces at the same time when the history is being made, I find absolutely fascinating! Putting a message on the board in the mess, and trading things for beer money - that brought a smile to my face. Keep safe, Gavin

And their cases.

Have had these for a little while but haven't put them up. I've been trying to improve my photography (a muppet without opposable thumbs could take better photos ...). Also having too much fun seeing what others have posted. Everything from ladies' Red Cross merit medals, to Rising Suns in leather cases and stunning Commemorative medals! Well, here they are. A Third and Fourth Class Auspicious Clouds. Thank you to Richard LaTondre and Dieter who ran their eyes over the Third Class for me before I picked it up. It looks even better in the flesh than what the photos on YJA suggested.

Beautiful Markus, just beautiful. The enamels on the dragon just glow. And I was surprised at the size of the order relative to the officers and knights. Now I definitely have jewel envy All you need now is a First and Second Class and your set is complete!

Thanks for the tip, Lorenzo. I'll keep a look out for a Two Rivers. I've seen them occasionally pop up but they usually get snapped up quick. Really enjoyed reading your personal page too and seeing your photos of Iraq. Keep well, and keep safe. Gavin

Very nice! That box is is practically mint condition. Thanks for sharing!

Hey Lorenzo and Markus, What a fantastic thread and I'm enjoying seeing all the gorgeous eye candy. That prototype Two Rivers you have Lorenzo is absolutely stunning. A true one of a kind!!! I'm now on the look out for a Two Rivers myself, but unfortunately don't like my chances at picking one up at a 'reasonable' price anymore.

Very nice Lambert! Congratulations! Would you mind showing a pic of the reverse as well? I know very little about British medals so always keen to learn. Gavin

Thanks Lorenzo. Fascinating video. I couldn't help feeling a chill at the scene where young Uday or Qusay is pointing his toy gun at the camera.

Thanks for sharing this photo, Lorenzo. It really does paint a thousand words doesn't it. Whatever Saddam Hussein was as a despot, there was a family in the background.

Noor and other gents, Thanks for taking the time to share these examples and to comment. Found this thread fascinating and certainly learnt a lot about an area I know little / nothing about. Cheers!

My Royal Order of Cambodia (Ordre Royal du Cambodge) which arrived today. Have to agree that these are one of the most attractive orders around in terms of the sheer elegance of the design. Believe these have now been resurrected under the current Kingdom.