saschaw

From what I know (according to Nimmergut) Saxony stopped handing out long service awards in 1918.

Ah, finally. Thank you, Rick. Nice, very nice. And thanks to Mr. Seymour. My father loves anything from Train-Bataillon 14 as it's the very only unit in Durlach, where he has been born. However the BZ thing is odd. I though Hermann Göring was the only one to "upgrate" his Lion. I cannot check at the moment but think Gockel got rather a 3aX "sE", as he's not wearing oaks to his bar... And of mine... Now thinking about the harder cases. PS: still thinking about Gockel: he may have gotten a peace time Zähringer 3aE up to 1908 and lists them both together, as if they were just one award - foolishly, but possible... PPS: What is "BdJM"? One of the about 100 "Erinnerungsmedaille für 1906"? Ah, born in 1836 he might have entered military service in 1854, what makes him "in service" in 1856, plus still alive in 1906.... nice...

Hehe... well Gene, it's a "Frackspange" / tuxedo bar, worn on civilian occasions, angled. The are exactly the other way round, so start mostly with an EK on the right. I'll look if I can find one "in wear"... Edit: found an ex-WWI officer with Hohenzollern, Z?hringer Lion and Hamburg Hanseaten cross:

Gentlemen please, anyone? My "oldest" rank list at the moment is 1909...

Something new on this? I'm having now a 1913 rank list and think I'll go all threw it, until I find him. He actually should be there, should he not?

Hmm, (you know I have) no idea about those "semi-official" ribbons - but that would be the same ribbon as for Naussau's Erinnerungsmedaille 1909, which I guess is impossible in this combination. Many moons ago I had a button with ribbons from pre 1913 times, that had the same ribbon and if I remember correctly it was as well in last place - and "mustard" as yours. Due to the lack of any long service award in combination with two awards that may be for a long serving NCO (crown order medal and Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen or Red Eagle order medal) I'm still thinking this is more likely the old Prussian XXI... We'll never know for sure... :speechless1:

Nice ones, but I cannot help much, but... the latter one has yet before been shown by Mr. Paul C and your very own evil twin said it was not a good bar, but a modern put together. I thought differently on it back than, and still think the same. For me most likely a (maybe ex-) NCO with his "old style" DA1 in last place. Only a fool would put that away for the new XV... (have proof for that on a photo with medal bar) I'm too still having some bars I'm browsing whole rank lists for - at least now I know how you must feel... :catjava:

I'm with Rick here: the bar looks god, but the Albrechtskreuz does not match.

Looks the same as (kingdom) Saxony's Albrechtsorder's ribbon. Here in 4th place of a ribbon bar to a Saxon NCO with connections to Altenburg:

I think I forgot to show this here. War time or early post war time, and in my humble opinion very tipical "Godet":

Nice photo, congratulations. When I saw it on eBay (yes I did, but cannot buy "everything" I see..) I initially thought "hey, that combination has to be rare... " Good find and honestly, I would not have thought he indeed is identifiably to presumably "one". At the moment I'm offered a NCO photo I could identify from just one award - as he's wearing something that was not very often given to his "nationality". Identifying NCOs is making big fun... isn't it, Rick? :cheers:

Looks like an awarded piece, not a later private purchased one. Though, the ring seems to be repaired. It should be the other way round, 90?...

Wow. To say something more: not a native Badener (no 1902 medal!), not yet in service in 1897, so a rather young Hauptmann in WWI. Don't have the Falken roll, but... I've seen one more combination with war time BdZL and GSF, and don't think there were many more. If you ever want to get rid of that bar... ;)

No, actually not. There isn't a "Imperial Prussian" crown as Prussia was a kingdom, not an empire. It's the Imperial GERMAN crown, of course worn by the same guy as the king of Prussia was. We are talking about the same, just to be clear. Ah, and then it makes sense as he was wounded... Nice picture! Am I blind or is he not wearing an NSDAP long service award? Or it is just a pre 1939/41 pictures...

That's a GERMAN "Erinnerungszeichen f?r Marineflugzeugf?hrer und -beobachter" (1916-1918). Hardly seen, very nice. Thanks for showing.

I reported the bar to eBay. Not as it is in my humble opinon faked (they do NOT care...), but as it is "nazi stuff" that IS banned on German and Austrian eBay, even if you are "photoshoping" the images... if they get that (I hope they do) the auction will be deleted, and Miguel will get an e-mail that the contract of sale does not exist any more... problem solved, money saved. That far in theory. :catjava:

Bad news, it seems we have to add another eBay seller to our personal "beware" lists: "ilselebrun" is now offering a third bar of exactly the same style. As Mr. Research wrote yesterday: "Not for my collection." http://cgi.ebay.de/5er-Ordensspange_W0QQit...1QQcmdZViewItem The other bar offered at the moment may be good, has at least not that backing..

If were talking about the same: that's a long service award as they were given to EMs and NCOs in most German states from 19th century until 1913, when all those "old style brooches were changed for medals and crosses. There are many different ones: different classes, modells and states.

Sorry for being rude or distactful, my intention was mainly do be direct and clearly understandable. Well, as said: please wait with the payment, I have an idea that might save you the money. I cannot guarantee it'll work, but just wait one or two days. I'll be back on this and hope... Well, to be honest, for me it is mainly the seller. But if you can see who the seller was just from the folding and apperance of a bar, and we can here, then there's no more doubt about a thing we don't want with bars... if you know what I mean... ;o(

Did you pay yet? If I were you, I'd wait some days... there might be a good chance... or do you want to buy the bar? I'm not telling you what to do, please don't get me wrong. However, I would not want buy such a bar.

All we have to do is being carefull and watch those guys. Good bars still have the "good" look that fake bars never ever will have. Well, at least sometimes... Times might be getting hard, but we're harder. Sorry Ed, thought this little sentence was known. It's the ending of every mathematical proof. I'm quite bad at maths, but could remember at least that "q.e.d.".

What I forgot to mention: please, don't send "him" any link to this forum nor tell him about us. His lawyer does not like us. Law isn't always justice... :rolleyes:

Gentlemen: quod erat demonstrandum.

And the second bar, with exactly the same construction makes it sure, especially if offered at the same time by the same seller.. :violent: Or does anyone here believe I'd pass on a bar with the approx. 60 times awarded Baden Large Golden Merit Medal (19108-1918), if I wasn't very sure it is eCrap... ?

As said, the backing's a modern fabric and the needle system looks quite "evil". Not what I would suspect on an old bar.