saschaw

Well, but who should have gone to a jeweler if noone was ever awarded that class? From what I understand, this is one of these very common fakes produced in the 70s and 80s, isn't it? A. Thies had many in auction in the last years, offered as fakes by the way.

"Schei? Arschloch" would that be, but I don't know if that's a good idea. In the end you might be the fool. I wouldn't do, but telling what you think about the action's absolutely fine... Heiko, have you yet blocked the club etc.?

Nice you like it. Well, why shouldn't he have asked? I'm pretty sure he was SA, SS or something similar, and it was "usus" in earlier days to have a uniform matching backing, so he wanted a brown one as many navy bars had a dark blue. Nothing really important, but for him it might have been, who knows...

My father used to have one - would be this:

Well, from style they seem to be for a Prussian Red Eagle Order IInd class or for a Order Pour le Merite, but I've no idea how to tell if these are originals or at least old ones, or fakles. If they are old, not bad...

I the picture was larger and one could read the buttons... I think the real mounted ribbon is under the dirty one and I suppose there was a peace time "ice bear", a knight's sign IInd class of the Anhaltian house order of Albrecht the Bear. Anyone with this idea?

Honestly, I've NEVER seen a 1920s Godet bar with NSDAP brown backing - did you...?! The bar predates 1936/1934 and might be well from pre "Machtergreifung" (1933) times. From what I know in these days not only SA etc. wore brown uniforms but SS did as well, so it might be from any party organization if it is from an organization at all - might be just a party guy's to be worn on the "party uniform"... I has a rather nice combination of Red Cross and Freikorps awards: - Bayern, Verdienstkreuz für freiwillige Krankenpflege mit Spange "1914" (one pin missing); - Bayern, Jubiläumsmedaille für die bayrische Armee; - Bayern, Militär-Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse o.ä.; - Preußen, Rote Kreuz-Medaille III. Klasse; - Bayern, Kriegs-Erinnerungszeichen des Bayrischen Landesvereins für Feld- und Etappendienst; - Dt. Reich, Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkriegs der Dt. Ehrenlegion e.V. ; - Dt. Reich, Ehrendenkmünze des Kyffhäuserbundes mit Frontkämpferabzeichen; - Bayern, Landesverein vom Roten Kreuz, Dienstauszeichnung 20 Jahre; - Baltischer Nationalausschuss, Baltenkreuz am Band; - Freikorps, Medaille des Soldaten-Siedlungsverbandes Kurland. I hope you like the bar and that it isn't my last good bar to show...

Gentlemen, any more thoughts or opinions, especially on the overlapping bar and the last one, my first and only Baden-SWA connection? Honestly, I thought to have something like this yet, but actually, I had none... I've got one more new bar (well, they still come up, it's strange). I think I'll scan and show it tomorrow. Rick, I think we've never seen that backing colour before an a Godet ribbon bar...

Comes a KorvKpt z.D. Hellmuth v. M?ller-Berneck up in the L?beck roll that far? That's the name Daniel found for it [one of my ribbon bars from another thread]...

Yes, Heiko makes here some correct points. The funny thing is some private sellers don't know that and think they're out of the thing when they're damn fakes are sold, but _that_ is actually still the same as it was before and you should get them returned anyway. As I said, you *should*. It's much sh*t happening these days...

Thanks for the addet pictures, all very nice stuff. @stogie: I posted them several times on German forums and here wasn't yet a issue it would have fittet. Though they're no generals with dozends of shiny awards they're two of my favourite photos in my tiny collection. It's always "Krieger-Verdienstmedaille". The table is only about awards to Austrians in WWI, so not a complete number. NOOOO it shouldn't, please keep these out of here, as _now_ it might get confusing... What you show are "Deutsche Krieger-Verdienstmedaillen", instituted as an award of the German Reich (not Prussia!) in 1892. Those were awarded only to black soldiers, later as well black police men in the German colonies. Those were awarded in four classes - 1st class in gold, 1st class in silver, 2nd class in gold, 2nd class in silver - and are exceptional rare. You show the two second classes, the first classes are larger and show Kaiser Wilhelm with Latin inscript on the averse. The funny thing is that the lowest class of those is exactly the same as the Prussian medal is, so if you have lose ones you can choose what they are, e.g. sellers decide for the medal of "Deutsches Reich".

You want more? This is my second W?rttemberger with the medal. Again, it's a peace time award but he was in China before, so got the medal on the black and white ribbon. He did NOT get it for service in China!

With pleasure, but still much that's missing. Here's a W?rttemberger with a peace time award, a W?rttemberger who hasn't seen battle by now. I guess this is somewhat rarer than the (though nice) Austrians.

I saw that one before and nothing concerned me about it, looks to be absolutely okay to me.

Not an too easy question you raise, but we discussed it recently on a German forum so it should work: the Prussian Krieger-Verdienstmedaille was instituted in 1835 to be awarded to foreign soldiers for merit in war and peace time. Most awards in that early days went to Russians. In 1873 the style changed to what we see above. It was awarded on the white and black ribbon for soldiers who did not yet participate a war and on the black and white ribbon for those who won it in war or participated an earlier "Feldzug" before!. The awards in WWI, mainly to Austrians but as well to Ottoman and Bulgarian soldiers were of course on the black and white ribbon. I attached a table with the WWI awards to Austrians compared to EK I and EK II. The EKs went only to Austrian officers, an Austrian NCO couldn't get one! If there are any more questions don't hesitate, I just wanted to get a short summary of the most important information.

I saw that bar once before and have no doubt about it. Very nice the Meiningen cross in late war zinc, much rarer than the bronce version...

It's the Prussian Krieger-Verdienstmedaille in an apparently private purchased case, most likely made in Austria - or am I wrong? Very nice though and the price was really okay...

I got one more today in Illingen at the "Sammlerb?rse". There were many nice ribbon bars, but prices have seem to gotten up insanely. At least there wasn't much Baden stuff so I wasn't too dismissing many bars... Nothing special and no chance to identify the wearer, but I'm interrested in what you think the awards are rather: EK II and WWI Baden merit medal or MEZ2 and Baden merit medal for SWA action? Both's possible and with apparently much time in service to get the Prussian 1897 and the Baden 1902 medal he should at least have been old enough to "fight" the Hereros. By the way, this bar was laying around at an elderly collector and trader from Baden I know for almost all time I can think, have been sitting in his office when I was still a little boy. Well, he has usually heavy prices so noone asks for his things - this was priced at 35,- Euro which I found rather reasonable and bought it for 30,- Euro.

Dave, now this makes it his rather sure, let's say 99,5%? Guys, you're great - two out of four identified... Regarding the KO3 white/black bar: comes a KorvKpt z.D. Hellmuth v. Müller-Berneck up in the Lübeck roll that far? That's the name Daniel found for it...

Timo, that are some really great bars, but you've got to promise me you won't buy the Baden stuff, will you? You actually don't want that... Will e-mail you soon, might have something to add for your collection - but I'm short in time at the moment.

No, he cannot do the same. The medal bar in the second auction is from Hermann Historica too, but was sold years ago. By the way, this picture was used by the earlier guy SPM mentioned too...

Thanks Frank, that Haffner sounds good, very good - a "heavily overdecorated" Lt. d.R. Sorry, that was just a guess by the other things and what rank it might have been. Could be other classes, sure. Thanks that far. The Bremen roll is undone and undoable from what I know, but how about Schwarzburg as confirmation?!

I think "GEM 381" is a very nice and genuine bar with nothing to doubt about.

Thanks Gentlemen for all the nice feedback. I wasn't afraid you wouldn't like one of them, but confirmation's always better. Christophe - if you have nice Baden bars, you might give it a try and contact me. ccj - I'm often complainig, too - but now without any reason. Rick - Daniel had the answer, yet! The second ribbon is a KO3 without(!) swords on white and black ribbon. I'm sorry I have to disagree with Daniel in a point: this is rather uncommon... Daniel - thanks again. And at all - if there's any more information to add, especially on the last bar, please don't hesitate.

I shalt stopp now posting, shall I not... ? I have to admit I was very, very lucky finding all these as I think none is common and they're all good. To add, not only good but as well early bars from war time or shortly after - I do prefer those to 1920s or 30s bars. The last one for now but I hope to be prepared for such a thread in some months again. Prussian/Baden/Ottoman combo with dark blue backing and ribbons in "Austrian" style, the bar mounted "upside down" what you can see on the needle. Navy? Possibly. Do I know what the awards are? I don't know. What rank and what awards might match this bar, and what time might it be from? War time again?