Chris Boonzaier

I have hundreds of variations of EK doc... there are plenty of print styles that are really "rare" but this one has to take the cake... The clasp to the 1870/71 EK awarded in WW1. There were no docs for these, there was an approval list and the unit made a confirmation doc for the awardee... so dont get thrown by the "Abschrift" on this,it is an "Abschrift" of text taken from a Kriegsministerium notice and should be seen as the mans "certificate" or preliminary award doc. Niemans book mentions there were no award docs, just confirmation documents. Notice how some lucky bastard picked this up for EUR15 at some stage..... Niemann has them (Albeit a much nicer one) at about EUR1000

wow... what a great group! And what a slip down the bitter slope... from an honourable job as a soldier to being an MP! ;-)

agreed

Depending on the quality, I think it could be anything. Best Chris

Actually, i see this is in the coppers section.... as some of the passed out photos are probably actions that could in various countries be considered illegal... I probably wont be posting them....

I have no passing out photo... but do have photos of guys in the unit after they have passed out. This includes ones where, after they have passed out a single eyebrow is shaved off, or, in one case, the face was decorated with a thick black permanent marker. Would these fir the bill? :-)

Just to set the record straight here.... Do I think the treaty was the best solution? No I dont. But I defy anyone here, with 90 years of 20/20 hindsight, even now, to suggest a better, workable solution. It is all very well to tear something up, but it is of no use unless you can offer (even now 90 years later) a viable alternative. AND.. I still maintain, just as adults are responsible for their actions, the German people were responsible in the inter year wars for the govt they got. AND Lets not involve the origins of the war in here, we will loose the oversight, there is a thread for that. AND I am at war on 5 fronts now.... :jumping:

can you elaborate on this? Best Chris

Which usually involves occupation and putting in Govts and supporting Govts friendly to you. Lets assume that the Marschall plan was a success story here... (And ignore the afct that in 1945, unlike 1918, there were no radiacal German parties to contend) ... there is a long list of failures since 1945 of "winning the war" and failing to set up a functioning Govt... you mentioned Vietnam... seems the people did not really care what the victorious good guys wanted... "winning a war" and failing to assure stability... like "mission accomplished" ? Comparing Germany 1945 to Germany 1918 is comparing apples to oranges....

I think the argument has been brought a couple of times that the German People did not want the kaiser so Churchills statement is a moot point. The Allies would have had to enforce the kaiser on German people. Do you seriously consider this an alternative? This quote, so often bandied about is as steadfast as "we should have had the 14 points!"... it just does not hold water...

I think they did, Austria lost a hell of a lot more than Germany. and Turkey was totally changed...

Hi Dan, Thats not a very convincing argument IMHO :-)

Yes... the Austrians did. And the Germans said "do whatever you want... we will back you up". Serbia was anti Austrian, but they did not kill Ferdinand. A study of what Austria demanded from Serbia is of advantage before bringing this argument. Serbia did everything possible to appease Austria, so much so even Wilhelm said "there is now no reason for war"... but they still pushed and pushed. If this is to be a discussion point... lets see the austrian demands and agree they were structured to create war.

I fail to see where the problem with reparations is? Belgium and Northern France were destroyed... none of Germany was.... do you really think that Germany should not have paid for any of this? Germany came off with little damage to Industry and country... I really fail to see how you think she had no responsability to help rebuild what she did a lot to destroy?

depends on what 'shrooms are on your Pizza man! I got aaaallllll the answers.....

OK, I need to make something clear here... I in no way say that what the allies did played no role in postwar occurances... every event has an effect on the future... I was watching a Programm about the 3 girls from Charles Manson's cult. All three had divorced parents, all three from broken homes, all were eays to manipulate etc. etc. etc... In all cases it helped a bit to understand a bit of the stuff that influenced their descisions.... But the bottom line is... THEY were responsible for their descisions and all that resulted from them. Blaming it on the parents... (or in this context, the allies) is a cop out. In that respect the Jefferey Dahmer program was better, he basically said "Everything I did, and the consequences are my responsability, they were my descisions" My point being... Germany chose what they got and supported it. fullstop. They couldf have chosen another right wing lot, or the communists... would the outcome then also have been the "fault" of the allies? Going back to mansons girls.... many girls have divorced parents, broken homes and are easy to manipulate... they dont all become killers for a cult... best Chris

I am looking forward to getting back into this topic, but am squashed for time till Tuesday... just noticed I for got a "NOT" in a sentence in post 43, making a totoally wrong point... the "NOT" is now added... see you in 24 hours....

Hi, I am on the fly so I dont have a lot of time, but from the other thread... "That is not strictly true. German simply got into the colony game too late... by the time she was interested, all the good real estate was gone... and germany got the leftovers.... Look at her african colonies... no prime real estate there at all. Why? Bismark did NOT want them... in fact, he hoped france would... that France would concentrate her energies on getting Colonies and leave Germany to do its thing in Europe. So the Germans only became interested in Colonies around 1880... and there was little left... Its as if I got the idea today... "Manhaten island sounds good... i think I will go build a house on the beach there...." and then complain noone wants to give me any space... If the germans missed the colonial boat they can thank Bismark. Anyway, they had it all figured out at the Berlin Conference mid 1880s... rules were set and agreed on, germany was not excluded on any level. Best Chris

You smug gunner you... Wait till I have time for a new salvo! Must finish Peter Pan, then go to bed... early start in the AM

A fantastic looking medal... It looks like the british are slowly turning back to taste and quality.

"The massive anti-German feelings and political actions against Germany prior to 1914." There are legitimate reasons that Russia, France and a whole host of other countries did not like Willy. He did his level best to assure that... so I pleed no contest. But I disagree that there were exclusively Anti German feelings.... Europe was full of nationalist, jingoistic feelings. To view the "Anti German" feelings as something unique is IMHO wrong. The Germans had "anti French" feelings, and together the Austrians and germans had "anti Russian" feelings.... So any nation can play the hurt feelings card in the pre WW1 era. best Chris

"The allies were allowed to have colonies and subjugate entire populations, but nooooo, Germany couldn't be allowed to join that club! They could have navies that sailed the world, but not Germany! I don't expect to change anyone's opinion, but you won't change mine either; Germany wasn't given a whole lot of choices in trying to become a member of the "World Power Club"." That is not strictly true. German simply got into the colony game too late... by the time she was interested, all the good real estate was gone... and germany got the leftovers.... Look at her african colonies... no prime real estate there at all. Why? Bismark did NOT want them... in fact, he hoped france would... that France would concentrate her energies on getting Colonies and leave Germany to do its thing in Europe. So the Germans only became interested in Colonies around 1880... and there was little left... Its as if I got the idea today... "Manhaten island sounds good... i think I will go build a house on the beach there...." and then complain noone wants to give me any space... If the germans missed the colonial boat they can thank Bismark. Anyway, they had it all figured out at the Berlin Conference mid 1880s... rules were set and agreed on, germany was not excluded on any level. Best Chris

You da man!!!!!

Nice Post Claudio, I think we can agree that Wilsons 14 points were no solution. It raises the question, was there ANY chance of a solution that would have made all sides happy? As to the continuation of the war... i repeat my challenge... :-) Which country was at war with germany from 1914 up until the beginning of WW2 (end of September 1939 it was over for them...) :-))