Steve Russell

Veteran, You state that this Ld'H has the Chevalier ribbon vice the officer. But I thought the rosette on the medal itself denotes officer. The rosette with silver stripe denotes commander, and gold denotes the highest class. Would the rosette not be an officer or higher? Steve

Thanks Veteran. I am still trying to unravel it. As tothe US awards, most of these were individual pin ons. Same goes for ribbons. Most period issue stuff ends up being individually pinned on. See it in photos all the time. The fact that someone stripped the wings leads me to belive the US medals were taken as well. He has 3 chevrons for 18 months in combat. That puts him overseas in 1917. No wound stripe so unlikely that he was wounded but still possible. I am no researching the 'American Legionaires' a book from 1920 that tells all the American recipients. Will take some time but may help. Thanks for the continued comments. They help stir the brain and any clues or ideas are very welcome. Steve

The Friedlander and Wagner PlMs were identical and many believe were made by Wagner and distributed by Friedlander. Could this stamp be a shared one for the same kind of arrangement for sales, etc. on the EKs? Incredible stamping. Steve

Thanks PK. I have pretty good files on DSC guys as well but not on the Ld'H. Baer was killed iin a flying accident in December 1930. Not sure if this could still be connected to him in some way but maybe. I cannot substantiate for him any degree above Knight for the Ld'H. I could only find 3 dozen aviators I could substantiate in any source that received it the Ld'H. I have only been able to verify that CPT Cassady received a degree above Knight. When his officer's degree was conferred (if at all) unknown but his commander's degree was conferred I belive in 1944 for his resistance work. Many of these are N124 or Lafayette Flying Corps guys. The asterisks were killed in action, ruling them out. Those in bold are from Indiana. Here they are: Name Bach, Jules James Baer, Paul Frank Balsley, Horace Clyde Baylies, Frank Leaman* Biddle, Charles John Boal, Pierre de Lagarde Booth, William Vernon* Bullard, Eugene Jacques Campbell, Douglas Campbell, Hugh Gordon Cassady, Thomas Gantz Chambers, Reed McKinley Chambers Cook, Everett Richard Crehore, Austen Ballard Dolan, Charles Heave, Jr. Dugan, William Edward, Jr. Hall, James Norman Hartney, Harold Evans Hill, Dudley Lawrence Hinkle, Edward Foote Hunter, Frank O?Driscoll "Monk" Ingalls, David Sinton Jones, Henry Sweet Lahm, Frank Purdy Lehr, Manderson Lufbery, Gervais Raoul* Ovington, Carter Landram Parsons, Edwin Charles Prince, Norman* Putnam, David Endicott* Read, Robert Emery Rickenbacker, Edward Vernon Rockwell, Kiffin Yates* Rockwell, Robert Lockerbie Sewell, Sumner Sourbiran, Robert Thaw, William Turnure, George Evans Willis, Harold Buckley This is what I have so far. Any more Ld'H recipients that were US pilots in WWI would be greatly appreciated. And any other clues on anything with this uniform. Thanks, Steve

Last Pic for now. The tailor tag

Nice US Air Service Patch

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PK, It does help and indeed I have already researched along these lines. Here is what I know so far: I have been able to determine that 38 Aviators earned the Legion d' Honneur. Of these, 6 were killed in action. If you take away those that ended up higher than captain during the war, then the list is 32. There are three men that hail from Indiana: CPT Thomas Gantz Cassady, 9 victories, from Freedom (Spencer), Indiana Earned Legion d' Honneur in WWI and was later made a Commander for work in WWII with the resistance. As I understand it, each dgree is graduated, so this means he must have been made an officer at some point. He also served with the Ambulance Corps before joining Spa157 and Spa 163. He served later with the US 8th & 103rd Aero Squadrons and ended the war a Captain. CPT Everett Richard Cook, 5 victories, from Indianapolis, Indiana Earned the Legion d' Honneur in WWI and commanded the 91st Aero Squadron. He earned the Croix d' Guerre as well but I can find no record of French Squadron service for him in any type of squadron. He ended the war as a Captain. 1LT Paul Frank Baer, 9 victories, from Ft. Wayne, Indiana He earned his Legion d' Honneur during service with N124 & Spa80. He later served with the US 103rd Aero and was shot down in the Spring of 1918 and made a prisoner for the duration of the war. He finished the war as a First Lieutenant. All three of the above men earned the US DSC and Cassady earned it twice. They all had the Croix d' Guerre with Cassady having 3 Palms & 2 Stars and Baer having 7 Palms. Cooks number of Palms are unknown but one can assume at least one to get the award or at least a star. This is what I have to go on. I believe the tunic shows the man served with the French as the US and Winged Prop are clearly the French design. As to their US awards, US awards were indivdually pinned on the uniform and were not put into groups until the 1930s as a general rule. Photos show this repeatedly. So the absence of US ribbons and decorations does not cause me much of a concern in that regard. They are just not pinned on this tunic. Below are pics to help any with further research. I really would like to track this one down as you can see from the pics. Thanks, Steve

The back. More info on the WAF link to help with clues. Steve

Please help me solve the mystery. More info here: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=227884 I believe he can be found. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks, Steve

Back. More info at the WAF on the above link. Any help is appreciated. Steve

Please help me solve the mystery. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=227884 I believe he can be found. Thanks, Steve

Gaffken, The Fleur de Lis on the screw back does not look like the '57 era style. That is why the back would be interesting to see. The '57 era pieces have the little 'curl' on the petals tips. Your does not. I'll defer to others on possible makers but yours it likely earlier. Nice cross. Steve

I like the look of the front Gaffken. Have not seen anyone post a '57 er, so here is a comparison photo. Steve

Thanks. Didn't look like good pics anyway but my 2 points still reamin unanswered. Steve

Les, Interesting observations and a tempting case. But I am with Dave and Graffken on this one. Pocket flaps are different, the badge placement as already noted, the bottom left pocket is wrinkled on this series of pictures and I do not believe the Sanke photo was taken in the field. It was taken in Germany I thought. So....not sure what to think about all of that. As a soldier, I had many uniforms. In combat, I generally wore two to four depending on how well supplied I was and how static, etc. You can bet an aviator was better supplied than an Infantryman! I wore badges. Had a couple of pinback CIBs and many sew on--one for each uniform. What does that prove? Only this. No soldier just has one of anything. Not even in 1918. Just look at the threads on this forum when we find authentic groups of a pilot. They invariably will have more than one badge, more than one of certain medals, etc. I have been awarded several medals and decorations. And I have purchased additional medals for wear or mounting so I could keep my issue medals in the case. Even my ones for valor. I still think we see what we see in the pic. I do buy your argument that pilots had the 'tarnished' badges, but I think these were 'burnished' or 'blued' from what the photo evidence shows. Given all that post #24 states, it is still easier to argue for what we see rather than to explain away the things we know: 1) Pilot was not retired 2) Photo was taken in May 1918 (when were the retired pilots' badges instituted and why is an 'active' pilot wearing one even if the date is before May 1918?) And just to make things interesting given the Bruno Loerzer post, this was purportedly his and is perhaps the same purported PlM with it that Thies is auctioning. Can't say and don't know. Sorry it is a poor pic. Pulled it off the web long ago to add to my named PlM files. But note the badge! Hoping someone can answer the two points above. Steve

OK now it is clear! The good news is that Tom has a nice cross. Thanks, Steve

OK Mike. I think I follow you. So you are saying that these unmarked examples are KMST manufacture and unmarked? or that they come from a different manufacturer altogether? I think you are saying that they are a different manufacturer. And if so, who do you think? Your marked one is clearly different but that was not clear on the earlier thread, which seemed to say those two were unmarked KMST examples. Please help me unconfuse myself. Thanks, Steve

Looks like they've tried to correct the shallow crown well into the deeper and broader correct well too but it looks really bad. In time, they will get the silver and the shape right. Kind of scarry. Steve

Great information Rick. That makes the awards on the first medal bars quite rare as if it were not already. And since Rick resurrected this thread, I will add a nice pre-34 fighting man bar to Ed's very clean and beautiful bar. Steve

Rick, Beautiful mini and ribbon group. And that is the first Urkunde I have seen. Thanks for posting it. Solomon, fantastic! For those that want to see some more S-L Loyalty Cross, I had a thread over at the WAF that has many beautiful pieces as well from members of both forums. Steve Schaumburg-Lippe Cross

Back and last pic. Steve

Thanks for posting the pics Mike. They help. But 'absolutely, definitely not?' What makes you state this? Compare Tom's with your non-screwback. I stand with my original possibility and agree with Chris...looks like a core match to a KMST. Even the dimensions and frames are similar. The only difference I can see is the tapered pin on your example, but too many other similarities front and back. See the pics below. Steve

Back side