Graf

The Rounded 3 bigger picture of the reverse

The Schinkel Type

Hi, I have these Two EK1 in my collection for some time. I collect mostly WW1 Ek1 and Ek2, however i have few EK1 and Ek2 in my collection from 1939 period For most of my EK1 from 1939 period i am sure that they are original. However I need help for these two EK1 - Ek1 with rounded 3 I bought it long time ago from a dealer as an Original -EK1 Schinkel Type also from a dealer, however Lately I have found out that he sells a lot of repro as originals. I need also help for this 4th Class of the German Eagle it is marked on the pin 21 and 900 Thanks for your comments in advance. Regards Graf

Hi Guy, Thank you for the info. I know for a long time this unmarked Leopold Star on Robert Seniso site He reduced the price twice for the last two years - from 900 Euros It has similar features with the one I bought from Willy -especially the front central medalion The diference is that my Star has the Wolfers plaque on the back an the pin shape is like the pins on Wolfers Stars I have seen before. I am not expert on Leopold Order - just a collector who decided last year to focus on Leopold Order. Regards Graf

Hi Guys, Thank you for the response. I just did what I felt was the right thing to do... to rectify the dealer actions and to restore the grouping for the sake of the honour of Commander Hans Adam ( and the the member "art wall") I think that is what makes us the colllectors different breed from the dealers. By collecting and taking care of our collections we keep in some extend the history alive...and meanwhile we are enjoying what we have in our hands Hi Streptile ..regarding the EK1 by Juncker I agree with you. I have been chasing this one for a while, because I had already the 1914 EK2 by Juncker ( or i think it is Juncker because it is marked "J" on the ring) I like to make sets of EK1 and EK2 by maker..if possible. It is funny Collectors world... what goes around comes around Recently i sold to a dealer a very nice mounted Group of Miniatures of Belgium Orders ..two weeks later i was offered the very same group by a different person ( needless to say the group was separeted) The price was twice as the one i had sold it to the first dealer It is amazing Regards Graf

This nice EK1 stamped 800 on the pin is my contribution to the topic Note; The the J. Wagner& Sohn Berlin.W. EK1 cross on the backgroubd picture ("The IRON TIME") is not mine..I wish I had it Graf

This is the reverse of EK1 by Juncker Graf

Hi, Just to let you know that after long consideration I decided to return this excellent EK1 to the PLM grouping It is where it has to be. The EK is not lost just went where I belive it belongs. I do not regret my decision and I am happy that I have shared these pictures with you I may admit that I had in exchange a very nice reward (not money), which in a some way hepled me with my decision As a WW1 EK1 Collector I feel I have lost. as a general collector I have been rewarded nicely I hope that the new owner (also a owner of the PLM grouping) will enjoy the reunion. Thank you for your comments and I will not hesitate to share any new rare EK with the Forum like this nice screwback Ek1 by Juncker --marked L/12 That is life. Regards Graf

I agree there are so many sexy EKs out there This Ek is not for trade -just sexy Graf

Hi Guys, Thank you for your comments. They will be of help when I have to make my decision. I agree and disagree with Kay. First of all I put ths AWS variation as rare as KMST EK1 with similar attacment. More over I have seen few KMST EK1 on the market. This is the first AWS. Second. The EK has flat surface on the back which is different from the usual AWS "waffle" one. Also it is marked 935 for silver. Other fact is that it comes from a grouping, which is "well documented", and it puts additinal weihgt on the EK rarety. I own part of "history" without the price tag attached to it. I assume that AWS add the additinal latch by request of U-Bouat Commander Hans Adam.Even if the latch was added "after market" by other jeweller it does not reduce its value. As we know most of the EK1 with rare attacments wre pravetely purhased..only exception could be EK1s made by firm DRGM/KMST. All known EK1s by this firm have special attacments. I feel a little bit sorry for the member who claimed that he has bought the grouping, however it is not for the first time we have seen grouping to be split ..and will not be the last. At least I have seen 2-3 Knight Cross groupings bought and then split by the dealers for better profit or easy sell(off course with profit). They do not care about history..what they do care is the profit Anyway I will wait and see what will be next. Regards Graf

Hi Kay, I did not get it. The facts are : I have the EK1 by AWS in my hands The Member who contacted me has the The whole grouping, however with the replaced EK1(which is in better condition but not a rare Variation as the AWS one) We suspect that the "well known dealer" did split the EK1 by AWS from the grouping and sold it separetly. Did you sugest that I have to return The EK by AWS to restore the originality of the grouping or to keep it As a collector I am a little bit devided inside One part of myself says "keep The EK by AWS" the other one says "restore the grouping". At the moment the part that says "keep The EK by AWS" is stronger than the other one. I will probably never be able to get hold of similar Variation. I feel sorry for the member who spent fortune to find out that he does not have the grouping in its original condition as sold by Hermann Historica(Auction 59 Lot 107) The problem is that I do not know whether this grouping had been mixed and matched even before The Auction. Only the late Hans Adam could have known the answer I did not mention the name of the Dealer because the member who bought the grouping is still waiting for reply by him In due course I might let you know who he is. Regards Graf

HI, There is a very interisting thing has hapened recently. I got a mail from a member who bought the Pour le Merite grouping from a well known dealer The problem is that the dealer knowingly or unknowingly has sold the grouping with a new EK1 (which relplaced the EK1 by AWS) This member looks quite upset He sugested, indirectly, that I have to return the EK1 to restore the "history", which was changed supposedly by the dealer. I would like your opinion Regards Graf

Hi GregM Thank you for your comments. Yes, I agree with you that the pin is different from the ones the most common seen on EK1 by AWS.(picture provided) The material on the latch looks the same as the one on the hook. As I mentioned and as you suggest the latch could have been added by jeweller or by the maker himself by the Owner request. The reason for better and more secure attacment to the uniform. The pin system including the latch deos not show any signs for replacement The soldering is quite neat. In the Group owned by Hans Adam there were two EK1 -this AWS and one more standard, however in better condition. I assume that AWS EK1 was used on dayly basis..hence more paint loss and the latch lock. Regards Graf

Hi Chris, Thank you for your comment. Yes, It is hardly to believe that anyone will split it up. I assume that the person who bought the Group was after the Pour Le Merite Order He did not have other option Then he decided to split it up to get some of his money back. Auction price for the Group was 28 000 EURO plus commission of 20%+ ..and it was few years ago. If i was him i would keep the Group intact It is an example how people interfere with history - Some Collectors "create" groups for a profit, some split them up to reduce the "damage" on their budget. That is why The British VC is getting more and more expensive on the market ..it is difficult to "create" history with ths decoration since it is the most well documented one. Once you get a hold of VC eighter a single piece or in a group you know that you have a part of real history in your hands Regards Graf

Hi Hagahr, Thank you for your comments I will take them into consideration while I keep examining the EK in more details. The Cross looks fine ..no signs for resoldering or any late alterations The soldering is perfect and in most of the sides hardly seen as with any good quality EK1 and EK 2 I know that AWS is mostly known for their EK1 with "waffled' backplates (Ralatively rare Variation) This Ek is somting different from their ;known' design, That is why i decided to list it on the Forum. Regarding the latch and the paint I assume since the EK was owned by U-bout High ranking Officer - Hans Adam it might be custamised for him ( in the same fasion as for the top flyinng Aces in WW1- picture provided) not to get lost in action The paint could have been worn from the salty water conditions I collect Rare variations of 1914 EK1 and I also examine in details any new EK I get hold for late alterations. Recently I came across of 1939 "Schinkel" EK1 which had a frame and back silver plate of WW1 EK 1 fitted to 1939 Iron core -the problem was that this EK had very bad resoldering, damaged black paint and cracked frame ,,,all sugesting of intentional"upgrading" of the value of the EK Regards Graf

One more Graf

Hi, This is closer view Regards Graf

last one Graf

closer view

Sorry, I am a basic member and due to the restrictions, I have to post the pictures one by one Graf

Hi Guys, I want to show you something interesting It is 1914 EK1 with a special latch lock of the pin made by AWS and marked 925 for silver content This Ek was a part of group of rewards which belonged to Blue Max ( Pour le Merite) Winner U-Boat Commander Hans Adam (1883-1948) For some reasons the person who owned the whole group, including the Blue Max, decided to sell this rare EK1 I was lucky to get a hold of it Graf

one more L1 miniature Graf

closer image By the away there is very interesting information regarding the GO Star by Wolfers. Most collectors from Belgium insist that the Star is mady entirely by Wolfers On the other hand very respected collectors of L1 from around the world suspect that the Star is made in mid to late 1930 and is assembled by De Greef with most parts by Wolfers and some parts( front central piece) by De Greef, which can exlain the uncrowned Lion and the plain red enamel. Graf

Bravo. Very impressive indeed I like Luxury miniatures Here is one in white Gold by Massaux

Thank you for your comments They are of great help I collect Orders from Europe. Most Orders that come for sale on the market are Standard ones Thre is no problem with them However, from time to time there are pieces on sale that differ form the Standard. They are not mentioned in any literature These forums are great, since members can share pictures of their collection and also opinions This picture is my small contibution to the topic of ths Forum Two French made Order of Leopold -Commander and Officer Grades I am still eager to get more opinion on the GO Star by Wofers Graf