Dave Wilkinson

See the attached photo. Dave.

Yes, it is a helmet plate for the City of London Police. It should be painted black and the Divisional letter is missing. This type was worn between 1914 and the early to mid 1970's. It is NOT military. Dave.

The first item looks to me like one half a cape fastner. The other half will be a mirror image of the badge shown with the addition of a chain attached which would stretch across to the other badge and the end link would slip onto the hook. Dave.

The badge suggests a "generic" version which would have been available for purchase by one of the hundreds of small UK fire brigades (including the many private & industrial set -ups) which existed pre. second world war. Dave.

Its always fraught with danger to assert that an organisation is the oldest or second oldest in the world. Someone will always come out of the woodwork and challenge it. Such is life............. Dave.

Jeff, For a Constable the epaulette would consist of his force number. These were (I think) four metal numbers mounted on a bar in chrome. The letter which you refer to would be "R" (Reserve). Dave.

Max, The lack of reply does not surprise me and mirrors my own experience when seeking information from police forces at home and overseas. Regrettably, the problems of today and tomorrow concern them more than their own history which I suppose can be expected. You may have better luck with the National Archives at Kew but may have to pay for any information they hold. Dave.

Although the British Transport Commission Police existed in that name for around about 15 years, they had during that time quite a variety of badges. The appended photo shows an almost complete "set" apart from two others which I believe exist and which to date have escaped me. Dave.

Those Officers etc who are shown in the illustrated Police Almanac entry for 1951 will be members of the West Riding Constabulary (Dewsbury Division) and not members of the Dewsbury Borough Police. There will be a stand alone entry for the Borough Police. Dave.

Max, My apologies for the delay in replying. I'm sorry but I can't answer your question. I'm sure that an enquiry with the Cyprus Police or alternatively the National Archives at Kew may bring forth an answer. Probably the National Archives would be a better bet as I suspect that unless the current Cyprus Police have a historian or an individual serving with an interest in their history then your enquiry may go unanswered. Best of luck. Dave.

The British Government administered the Cyprus Police as part of the Colonial Police Service prior to independence and the special constabulary would have been an integral part of the police. Dave.

Jeff, The uniform you have would have been worn latterly on formal occasions only. Up until the mid seventies it would have been worn on the street with the addition of revolver holster/belt etc. However, the subsequent rise in terrorism in Northern Ireland saw it being replaced by more practical garments, ballistic vest, sweater etc. such as that shown in the photos you mention. Dave.

"Nearly every County Force has it's own Musum and proudly displays it's history - why should the Metropolitan Police - who started modern Policing in 1829 , see it's treasures being left in boxes to deteriorate." Mervyn Alas, this is not the case. Most of the police museums which did exist (and there were very few) have now closed due to a lack of either finance or lack of premises. Whilst I am an avid police historian I take the view that it is not part of the remit of any police force to maintain a museum. Arguably, most senior police officers of today are interested (quite properly) in what is going to happen tomorrow or next week and not what happened in the past. We have a national army museum and an imperial war museum and even a national railway museum. Why don't we have a national police museum? It is not for individual police forces to set up and maintain their own and to use police funds in the process. That cannot be justified in the current financial climate, indeed its doubtful if it could be justified at any time. Police forces exist to proving a policing service nothing else. The task is one (in my opinion) for central government. Dave.

No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly certain that the Garda Siochana has never used the rank of Chief Inspector. Dave.

Jock, In the UK police officers aspiring for advancement are required to take examinations. Firstly for promotion to Sergeant and secondly for promotion to Inspector. Advancement beyond that is on merit (and often whether your face fits). However, passing the examinations does not mean automatic promotion! I knew two Constables during my service who were qualified for promotion to Sergeant and Inspector. But both, completed their service as Constables. One in particular took and passed the examinations simply to show his bosses that he could do so, but stressed that he had no interest in advancing any further. The second, although able to pass the examinations was totally incompetent. In fairness to him, he knew his own practical limitations and again did not seek advancement. In the UK we do not promote Police Officers simply because of their long service, we require a little more than that. Dave.

Peter, To add to the confusion, you have to consider whether the negative (if there was one) has been reversed prior to publication. I've noticed that this is frequently done (not on this forum) giving the impression that the medals are worn on the wrong side. We're probably better leaving it there otherwise we will get ourselves totally confused! Dave.

Jeff, Then the insignia above the shoulder title would consist of Bath stars, and or Crown and in the case of the Commissioner, his Deputy and Assistants, crossed tipstaves within a wreath. In addition the last three mentioned ranks would wear appropriate gorget patches on each lapel. Below those ranks the Crowned Kenya Police lapel badges would be worn with the lions facing inwards towards the throat of the wearer. Many (but not all) British Colonial police forces adopted the same rank insignia as worn in the UK. The fact that it is a bush jacket suggests use by a Gazetted senior officer as opposed to a lower rank. Dave.

Rod, Thanks for your reply. The original question was asked by 1314. He wanted to know what the medal was that is on the LEFT side. I guessed that those of the right would be awarded by the Australian Government and suggested that those on the LEFT would be awarded by non-Government organisations. Incidentally, you have a very nice collection of Australian police insignia! Dave.

In the UK medals/ribbons worn on the left of tunic by the military and police would be those such as the Royal Humane Society, Liverpool Shipwreck & Humane Society, RSPCA and similar. Dave.

Jeff, Chrome plated shoulder titles "Kenya Police" would be on the bottom of the epaulette and above would be Bath stars/Crown depending on the rank of the wearer. However, this could differ depending upon whether the jacket was pre. or post the Colonial period. Dave.

It is my understanding that the Met. Commissioner, the Deputy and the Assistant Commissioners upon appointment loose any "Constable" only powers including those relating to arrest. This was certainly the case during the period when they were ex officio Justices of the Peace, it being incompatible for a Justice of the Peace to also be a Constable. Mervyn's comment "...having come through the ranks they are most certainly Police Officers with a power of arrest", is largely meaningless if on appointment to the ranks mentioned, legislation removes those powers from them. I have always found this forum to be very informative and a very good source of information. That said, I sometimes wonder how accurate that information is. I believe it should be so, otherwise readers will be mislead. I will set myself a task and get to the bottom of this Met. Commissioner business once and for all. There seem to be varying differing opinions in respect of his constitutional position i.e. Is he the UK's most Senior Police Officer, does he hold the "Office of Constable" and another "does he or doesn't he" still carry a silver token! Various individuals (including myself) give their views but those on the sidelines reading these comments will still scratch their heads and ask "Well, that's interesting but who's right?" As a retired Merseyside Police Officer, I'll contact the current Commissioner, Sir Bernard (former Chief Constable of Merseyside) and I'll ask him if he would be kind enough to give me answers to the questions posed. I'll let you know what he says. Mervyn, here in the UK Watch Committees were abolished in 1974 (nearly 40 years ago) when the Hull City, Bradford City, Leeds City and Birmingham City Police forces ceased to exist.

Mervyn seeks to set out a "seniority structure" which is in effect non existent. It is a fact that we don't have one senior police officer in England and Wales, we have 43 of them. Another fact which you have wrong is that the Met. Commissioner ceased to be appointed by the Home Secretary many years ago. He is appointed by the Queen upon the recommendation of the Metropolitan Police Authority. I have checked archive copies of the Police & Constabulary Almanac stretching back to 1942 and can tell you that the Met. Commissioner etc has been a member of ACPO since its formation and before that was a member of its predecessor organisation "The County Chief Constables Club". I am not sure that the rank insignia is particularly significant. The City Commissioner uses the same insignia as the Met. Commissioner yet the City Chief has a force which is smaller in strength than any of the provinces. A further relevant point is that niether the Commissioner nor his Deputy are attested police officers, so on that basis I fail to see how they can be regarded as the most "Senior Police Officers in England & Wales".

"The Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police is the most senior officer in England and Wales - he is followed by H. M.'s Chief Inspector of Constabulary and third in seniority is the Deputy Commissioner. Chief Constables rank below these officers." Mervyn, I'm sorry but you are wrong. This is a common misconception amongst members of the public and the media. The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis is of equal rank to the provincial Chief Constables. The Deputy Commissioner is of equal rank to the Deputy Chief Constables. You are even further adrift with the Inspectorate of Constabulary. They have in the past been retired police officers who on appointment become civil servants. In recent years several have been appointed without previous police experience. They do not have any police powers and cannot and never have been able to give directions or orders to the Chief Police Officers Indeed, the current Chief Inspector of Constabulary has never even been a police officer. Their role is to advise the Home Secretary and to inspect and report on the efficiency of police forces in England & Wales. So, they fall completely outside your supposed rank structure and do not even form part of the English & Welsh Police Service.

Well done Pete! Another couple of items preserved for posterity. Knowing you as I do, I know that if and when these medals leave your possession they will do so in company with the story of George's outstanding piece of work. Its a pity that his CC's Commend Certificate has become separated (presumably) from the medals. Dave.