gavinmedals

Hi, I agree with Michaels info on the dog tag. In terms of medals potentially missing, it is difficult to say from what is presented. If he had signed up and only served in the borders of South Africa during the war, his entitlement would likely only be the two medals i.e. War medal 39-45 and the Africa Service medal. However if the Italy Star ribbon is relevant, then he would likely be missing at least one or more of the following, depending on service: 39-45 Star, Africa Star and Italy Star. The only way to know for sure would be to contact the SANDF Archives in Pretoria and request copies of his service record / entitlement or use a South African based researcher such as DENEL or Aud that are members of this forum

Hi, I can confirm that the SAAF did have a Aerial Photographer half wing, reference C149 in Colin Owen's book "The Military Badges & insignia of Southern Africa. The LF (Lug Fotograaf) is the Afrikaans for AP (Air Photographer). As to scarcity and using the RAF wing I am not able to answer your question, except that those SAAF personnel seconded to RAF units were known to at times wear the RAF equivalents on uniform

Hi Harry, thank you for the link. A very interesting site.

Hi, I have done some further reading and the Q.S.C is interesting, in the Tylden's "Armed Forces of South Africa" it is also only referred to as "Q" Service Corps. It was established in Nov 1939, taking over the clothing, SA Service Admin, Pay & Clerical Corps. the approximate strength was 950 officers and 12 700 other ranks

Wow, you have been busy. Looks great

Hi Duncan The records are unfortunately not online, so you will have to contact a researcher based in South Africa. Two researchers that I know, and believe are also members of this forum, are DENEL (Dewald Nel - Nel's Antiques) or Aud (Audrey Portman from Rhino research). I have used both in the past with good results. For some reason I cannot seem to find the list of GMIC members tonight. Regards, Gavin

Hi, can help with some of them: A.S.C - Army Service Corps A.C.F - Active Citizen Force Q.S.C - A reference lists it as "Q" Services Corps. Perhaps "Quartermaster"? N.M.C - I have found the "Natal Medical Corps", but this was much earlier so perhaps not I will see if I can find anything more over the weekend Regards Gavin

The book you mention was essentially the only one for many years and is still a good reference for the period. Another book that came out a few years ago is "A Guide to South African Military Awards" by Paul Matthysen. This is a good reference for the different types found e.g the various Pro Patrias but not much on numbers. Apart from Barron et al there are the Forsyth rolls for commonwealth awards. I stand to be corrected but believe little if any info on up to date numbers for SA awards is available from the SANDF (SADF was combined with MK and APLA post 1994, to form the SANDF, so strictly speaking no longer exists)

Good progress on your SA medals

Hi, just as an FYI, there is currently a copy of the book by Alexander, Barron & Bateman available on Bid or Buy (SA). (Note, I have no link to the seller)

Hi, not sure if you have seen the following two books: 1. South African Orders, Decorations & Medals, by Alexander, Barron & Bateman. 2. A Guide to South African Military Awards, by Paul Matthysen The first has been out of print for some time! But both do turn up on "Bid or Buy" or some of the South African dealers / auctioneers

Wessel, it is unlikely that you will be able to undertake this with out some additional information, such as a name etc. also as far as I know the more recent records are still closed. Perhaps one of the South African researchers can assist, such as Dewald Nel (Denel) or Audrey Portman (Aud), both are members on this forum.

Wessel, as some of the other posts indicate I would personally group the medals in the order by country. I would also suggest, some literature. If you do not have it, to purchase a book called "South African Orders, Decorations and Medals" by Alexander, Barron and Bateman. It is long out of print but copies do come up from time to time on Bid or Buy. Also a Medal Yearbook is good reference and some of the later editions cover off on British and commonwealth awards incl South Africa. Order of precedence can be tricky because they do change from time to time, especially South Africa, but that is part of the fun. Arthur is correct that the VC was classified as a foreign award post 1967 Republic being gained. Just to illustrate how there can be differences it was my understanding that the only foreign decoration to receive precedence over all South African awards was the VC. Of course the could have changed over the years, even as recently as 1994. The unique example is the group to Capt Quentin Smythe, VC. He served through WW II and on into the 1980's. His group of nine mounted as worn was VC, SADF Long Service(silver & bronze), Coronation 1953, 39-45 Star, Africa Star, War Medal 39-45, Africa Service Medal, Jubilee medal 1977.

Hi, are you sure the Africa Star was awarded to a South African? The VX number looks more like an Australian service number prefix, indicating that the person joined or was from the state of Victoria. Just a suggestion as I do not recall seeing that prefix on South African medals

Hi, I have used Audrey for research before and she provides a great feedback. Another researcher is Dewald, I think he is also on GMIC as Denel.

Hi, thank you very much. I really appreciate the help interpreting the medals.

Hi, I was approached by a friend who owns the following "medallions" and asked to assist him with identifying them. I have not idea to be honest as it is well and truly out of my field of knowledge. I hope that someone on the Forum can assist me in deciphering the following medallions and indicate whether they are, as suspected, commemorative or award pieces please? This writing on the reverse seems to be Cyrillic script. Attached please find copies of the obverse and reverse of the first medallion dated 1915 - 1917. Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance. Attached is the second "medallion" in questions, with both the obverse and reverse pictured. They are both unnamed. In taking a second look, at the risk of stating the obvious, these may also be greek potentially? Any help would be greatly appreciated, and once again thank you in advance.

Great find, shows that there is still very interesting items that can surface

Hi, it is possible to get copies of his service records, but as there is no records online you will have to contact a local researcher. One of these is Audrey Portman from Rhino Research, whom I have worked with a number of times. I seem to recall that she is also a member with the username Aud. Best of luck. Regards, Gavin

Hi David, I am indeed a South African, born & bred. Now Australian but still collect to Africa related theme. I have just returned from a business trip and will send some info through to you via email over the next few days. I purchased the group through Oity Coins quite a few years ago now. For the benefit of the Forum, here is the photo of the full size group in the meantime. I have completed some research.

Hi David, you may be in luck with this miniature group. I have a full size group in my collection that lines up with the miniature group you illustrated. It was awarded to Brigadier Edwin Williamson, South African Staff Corps. Regards Gavin

Thank you for the tip. Will give it a go.

Hi, one of my collecting themes extends to the family surname. As such my latest additions is the group of medals to P/O Stanley Cohen from the Royal Canadian Air Force, Special Reserve. The group includes his appointment as a Pilot Officer effective 5th May 1944. This is the first Canadian group that I have added to the collection and have looked at the Library Archive of Canada website with little luck. Is any perhaps able to assist with either some information on Stanley Cohen or point me in the right direction to get some additional information on him please. It would really be much appreciated. Regards Gaving

I only just saw this thread, after the most recent post. From the initial post to the most recent is just shy of 10 years. So while I understand it is unlikely to be of use, some of the following may still be of interest: A quick look at the reference "Springbok Fighter Victory - SAAF Fighter Operations 1939 - 1945" volume 1 by Michael Schoeman, there is one fighter pilot listed with this surname. He is 205546V 2/Lt Roland Marillier. He was originally from Pretoria and served in 223 (RAF) Squadron and 4 (SAAF) Squadron. He was listed as KIA in about Jun 1942. Commented on the Alamein Memorial. Obviously there may have been a bomber pilot with that surname, so except for that, I am basing some observations on evidently the only fighter pilot for some consideration: 1. He was not a captain at the time of his death, as per the uniform. This most likely means the uniform was certainly enhanced with at least additional pips 2. In support of some of the previous comments, he did not have an MBE. I would estimate that he likely qualified for the 39-45star, Africa star, war medal, Africa service medal and a WW II memorial plaque. If these were ever in fact issued to next of kin is a different question that can be answered by looking at his service records. (The archive referred to above still exists as I understand, but it has moved recently). This indicates that likely the ribbon bar was an addition. 3. The RAF squadron service may explain the RAF wings, perhaps a stretch. Hope it was of interest cheers Gavin

Hi, one suggestion is to look at Alec Kaplan auctions that run roughly every two or three months. They regularly have badges from these units offered. A search on Google should get you to their site.