Gordon Craig

A side view of this cap.

The next cap is a much newer one and bears a totally different cap badge from the previous cap. This one appears to be from the Kadar period. The cap is the same shape and style as that worn by the armed forces. It is made froma light wieght material with a plastic sweat band. The lable on the interior gives us the name of the manufacturer; SZOVETKEZET, Budapest; the two words used for hat in Hungarian "SAPKA aNd KALAP"; that the cap is made for a man (FERFI) the size 9MERET) is 57 and it is for the Firebrigade (TU.O) Tűzolt?s?g. Below that is printed T ABORI the meaning of which is not clear as it could indicate one word or two.

A side view of this early fireman's cap.

Gents, Time to add more fireman's hats from my collection. I'll start with a winter cap that I picked up at the Military Museum here in Budapest. I have never seen a cap like this in use by any other Hungarian organization. It is a dark blue winter hat with fake fur fold down flaps. It is also padded inside. There is a stamp on the lining but it is not readable. This cap also has the smallest cap badge I have ever seen on any Hungarian cap. It measures 20mm wide (5/8") by 24mm wide (15/16") It has two holes on each side so it can be sewn into place. The chin strap is not a usable one, just for looks. It is sewn to the cap at each end. This would appear to be a cap used very early in the Communist period.

Charles, Methinks you forgot the picture. Who would ask $1000.00 for a medal not even in the books? Regards, Gordon

Charles, Ok by me. A nice pistol holster and a really nice sword, complete with the knot, would look just great! Regards, Godon

Gents, Another find from a flea market cruise last Saturday. While I had several Rakoci era uniforms I did not have a belt and cross strap for one of these uniforms. Thanks to Charles' eagle eye I was able to add one to my collection. Here is a front view of a uniform with the belts in place. The waist belt is put on first. Then the cross strap is slide under the shoulderboard and buckled on the chest. Not visible in this photo are the two D rings on the left hand side for the sword hanger. The belt has a stamp on the end with the holes but it is not readable. Regards, Gordon

The medal from the ebay auction.

Gents, I picked up this medal today because I had seen it around but never bothered to pick one up for research. As usual, buying the medal introduced all kinds of questions. Charles thought it was on the wrong ribbon and I thought I had info on it home. Charles had a point and I had no info. I did have a picture from a recent auction that showed The Peace Medal suspended from a rectangular metal bar while mine is suspended from a ribbon in the Hungarian National colours and in the standard triangular fold. Charles was told by a dealer last year that this medal was given out for promoting peace along the Hungarian/Austrian border in approximately 1989/90. The medal in the auction was dated as being from 1960 so we have a conundrum here. What is the rue heistory of this medal? It does not show up in any of my reference boks. Regards, Gordon

Charles, Thanks. That helps a lot and I am much less confused now. I am happy to consider them all breast badges until we can find a picture that shows this group really did have a uniform. I am just happy that between the two of us we seem to have corraled all the possible combinations of this badge in a relatively short space of time. Now all we have to do is wait a couple of weeks until the next show and we'll find another variation! Cheers, Gordon

A front view of the heavier drum in wear.

I do not have a good shot available right now of the kettle drum in wear. I have one I just can not find it at the moment. Here is a shot of the heavier drums in wear. I do not have one of these special harnesses either. Someday?

A picture of the brown harness in wear by bugles. They are playing the fife in the picture but the bugle can be seen worn on their righ side. There would also be a holster for the fife which I do not have. The buglers are not wearing the Y straps as they do not have to support the weight of the drum. I have seen pictures where the buglers were wearing the Y straps.

The holster for the bugle. How this works will be more obvious in the next photo.

Markings on the inside of the belt.

The drum hanger. It is a roughly cast piece of bronze and also serves as a point of connection to the left side of the Y straps.

The drum stick holster. I have a pair of drum sticks but they are in storage whith the white parade set that I have.

A view from the back.

Gents, Lat year I was lucky enough to acquire a complete set of the brown leather harness worn by musicians in the NVA. It consists of a brown belt, Y straps, kettle drum hanger, drum stick holster and trumpet carrier. I'll post pictures of the harness I have plus a few pictures of it in wear. I'll also include the harness for the heaver drum which unfortunately I do not own. Regards, Gordon

Charles, I am a little confused by all the late and early terms. Seems as though you are indicating that all the badges posted are breast badges and none are cap badges. True? We will have to get together some time and compare all of the badges, pictures etc and perhaps I'll understand. I did take a closer look at the badge I bought on Sunday and the picture of the one you posted. There is a definite difference in the material the backing plate of the badges are made of. Yours seems to be of aluminum and possibly stamped. Mine is of a thicker brass material and does not have the indentation around the edge of the back. I am not sure how the slightly curved surface was achieved. Great to have all these resources for comparison purposes. Regards, Gordon

Richard S, Interesting medal. Thanks for adding to our fund of knowledge about this association. This could go on for a while! Regards, Gordon

And here is a side view to try and illustrate the thickness of the backing material.

The back of the badge. What looks like a rusty nail is actually a pin.

Gents, Just when you think you have it all worked out, something new pops up! You got to love it? Earlier in this thread Charles posted what he described as the "first" type breast badge for the Association. He then posted a pictures and some confusion ensued as to what shape prongs on the back of a badge should look like. I attempted to address this point with my picture of what I considered two cap badges, because of the pointed prongs, in relationship to a breast badge with round ended prongs. Although not mentioned at the time, the point being that one would not want to wear sharp edges prongs next to the tunic material for fear of putting a hole in it. While I said this, at he time I had a paratroopers basic badge from the Kadar period that had sharp prongs on the back identical to a cap badge. Since I had only seen this one breast badge with these prongs I attributed this to an unusual badge that deserved further research should so information on the wear of such a badge as a breast badge arise. Well, as of today's show in Eger it has arisen. I bought a breast badge today identical to the one Charles posted in posts #16 and 17 of this thread although it is not in as pristine a condition. It did have the advantage of have the cloth (green) background that Charles mentioned. It wasn't until I got home and took the price tag off the back and inspected the badge that I noticed a couple of things. 1-Normally breast badges like this that have coloured cloth behind them only have a thin layer of cloth. This badge has a piece of what apears to cardboard behind the badge with the cloth wrapped around it making it much thicker. 2-The badge is attached to the cloth and cardboard by pushing pointed prongs (much like cap badge prongs) through them both and then bending them over. From the appearance of the prongs they were never pushed through anything else to fasten the breast badge in place so possibly it was sewn on to a uniform using the green cloth. I can not take the backing off the badge without damaging it beyond repair to see if the prongs have been changed at some time in the past so that will have to remain a mystery. The upshot of all of this is "never say never". As a long time collector I should have learned that years ago. The best I can say is that in the majority of cases cap badges have sharp prongs and breast badges have rounded ended ones but there are always exceptions! The badge measures (without taking the backing into consideration) 43mm wide (1 10/16") and 47mm hig (1 13/16"). Here are some photos. Regards, Gordon

Our own forum!!!!!!!!!!Well done Charles. Host away. Gordon