Gordon Craig

Gents, I am afraid that I have to report that I saw today, in a local flea market, what appears to be copies of the large and small Partisan Badges. I had a visitor with me and didn't have time to do a thorough inspection of the badges. I will have to do that later this week. What caught my eye on these badges was the colour. They were sort of a pink/gold colour. Very difficult to describe but certainly a long way from the silver colour of the real partisan badges. Sad day I must admit. Regards, Gordon

Zolt, You indicate there was an overlap between the two badges IE "Skeleton" type used up until 68 while the "larger badges" were used from "1967 to 1969". N?PHADSEREG?NK JELV?NYEI indicates the larger badges were used from 1967 to 1969 and the small badges were introduced in 1970 which fits in with your dates. Just curious about the overlap in 67/68. Thanks for pointing out the variations in the round Kivalo Dolgozo badges. Very interesting comparison. Cheers, Gordon

Charles, You must have read my mind. Great info on the award of the Partisan Badges. On the way home a few minuites ago it occured to me that I don't remember seeing a Partisan Badge award document posted. I know what they look like from the one we saw at the monthly Militaria Show. Do you have one you could post to illustrate what the document, and it's holder, should look like? It would be great reference to go with the dates of the awards you posted. Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, Yes it was at the National Museum. They keep their badges in trays about three feet square. Most of the badges were in small blue boxes with some still in the presentation case. That is how Charles was able to provide a list of some names associated with the numbered awards. The names were written on the bottom of the cases. Before that we had gone through 5 trays of Excellent Workers Badges most of which we had never seen before. The privately published book we were shown on Excellent Workers badges was also very interesting. The text on each badge was mostly taken directly from the book Charles refers to as "The Blue Bible" but the coloured pictures of the badges were really great. We have our fingers crossed that the chap from the museum will be able to put us in touch with the publisher and that he will still have two copies left to sell to us. Regards, Gordon

Charles, You've been busy again! I woke up with a cold this morning so I hope I didn't give it to you yesterday. In my reply to Ulsterman and his mention of the International Brigad medal, I should have mentioned our encounter yesterday. While Charles and I were browsing through a tray of Parisan Badges, I noticed a case of different dimentions and reach over for to the other side of the tray from where I was sitting and picked up the box. Inside was? You guessed it. An International Brigad medal. What a splendid piece of workmanship. The first thing Charles said was "Look for a silver mark". My answer was "You won't find one as the medal is only silver plated and the plating is coming off". An interesting piece of information to have. Anyway, I was impressed with the high releif of the badge and the extremely good workmanship in making it. Would really like to own one of those. Cased would be nice!!!!! Regards, Gordon

Zolt, Thanks for posting the interior of the award documents. Nice to know what they look like. Also the picture of the early red cross abde and case. For comparison purposes, here is a picture of the case my badge came in. Regards, Gordon

Gents, I'd like to add a litle to what Hunyadi had to say about yesterday morning at the National Museum. I have to second his comments about holding Partisan Badge number 1 in my hands. It is a beautifully made badge and much more striking in appearance than the others that were in the tray. Especially when they had the matching numbered miniture! Unfortunately, uncased. Charles and I are waiting impatiently to see if the museum staff can find a reference as to who was awarded this #1 badge. Perhaps, as he says, this may come to light from the State Archives. In the mean time, research presses on in many areas. Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, I don't know that Hungarian awards/badges have reached the point of being copied yet, outside of the ones mentioned earlier. The problem is that quality varies so much across the life span of some badges/awards that a poorly made item does not necessarily indicate a copy. Last week, when Charles and I visited the curator of the Numismatics/Medals section of the Military museum, we looked at a tray of Hungarian para badges ranging from WWII examples up to some current ones. There was one Communist era para badge that the curator thought might be a copy because of the colour of the green wreath. He didn't really know though as his area of expertise is not in these badges. I tended to disagree because I also own a similar badge and when examined in conjunction with 10 or 20 others it left no doubt in my mind that it was authentic. However, your point is well taken about the International Brigad medal since it isn't possible to compare several of them at once when buying such a rare bird. Regards, Gordon

Zolt, Very nice stuff. More things to hunt for. Miniature is very interesting. First one in this class of award that I have sen as a button hole device. Cheers, Gordon

Charles, Thanks for the info. Considering the rarity I got a really good deal on the red cross award. You have really made my day!!!!!!!!! Regards, Gordon

Charles, You didn't miss the two awards. The chap that sold them to me was just unpacking as I walked up to his table. He was in the first row on the right, just over halfway down the row. The only bandit was the guy selling the awards and his price! However, I didn't want to pass these up as I had never seen them for sale previously. Cheers, Gordon

Zolt, Thanks for the language lesson. Takes a long time to learn and all the help we can get is useful. Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, Chip has translated the banner in an earleir post as "Ace Hungarian Worker". My dictionary indicates that ELMUNKAS is related to electrical workers but Chip is away ahead of me in the Hungarian department. I forgot to mention in my earlier post on this badge that it is numbered on the back as # 4453 and has the mark of the State Mint on it as well. The Red Cross badge is interesting because it didn't come with a miniature. Regards, Gordon

The interior of the botton of the case is well finished in a plush red material and a white padded lid.

And the last thing I bought at the City Park Flea Market this morning. A cased MAGYAR ELMUNKAS dated 1948. It came in a very nice high quality wooden case. Instead of a metal hinge the case has a piece of linen cloth to hold the lid to the base. The case is very will made with mortice and tenon joints at the corners and varnished top and bottom.

Here is one I haven't seen before. A Hungarian Red Cross Excellent Workers Badge. These badges come in a dark blue case. Darker than most Red Cross badges I have seen.

Heavy Industry badge;

Gents, Time for me to add some pictures here instead of just text. Here are some case badges that I picked up during the week. First a cased set for Light Industry. More to follow after that. Sorry for the blurry images. My digital camera usually takes clearer pictures than my wife's and I usually use it but today my A drive died and my camera uses floppy disks so I had to use my wife's Cheers, Gordon

Stan, Thanks for the response and the interesting history on Kunstmann. This tunic with the button hole for the AHG plus the loops for the horizontal pin version of the badge just goes to show that regardless of what collctors say is "the only way things were done" because of regs they have read just doesn't hold water. We are constantly finding uniforms like this one, plus pictures, that illustrate all kind of different way badges were worn. The day I bought my DAF uniform at The MAX was a good one for me!!!!!!! Regards, Gordon

Stan, Has your research on Kunstmann indicate that he also held a high rank in the DAF? My tunic does not have the loops for the pin on bdage that the one in this thread does and it is not named. It would nice to be at least able to "attribute" my DAF uniform to someone. Especially since these are the only two uniforms that I have seen with these "button holes" in these locations. Regards, Gordon

Ulsterman, That was an interesting article that you posted. I had posted another article on the same badges but not in that depth. I spent close to two hours with the present curator of Numismatics and Medals at the Hungarian Military Museum yesterday (14 Feb.). To say the least it was an interesting and enlightening visit. We were allowed to take photographs of some of the badges shown in the article with the express agreement that we use them only for our own research and not publish them on the internet or in any other form. This is not the forum to post information on WWII badges so I will not update the article here. Perhaps it would be a good idea to post it on the WWII forum and update the article there. There is new information to add on badges in the inventory of the museum. Before I do that though, I will wait until after my next visit on the 28th of Feb. The museum is only available to researchers on Wednesdays so we have to be patient!!!!! Regards, Gordon

Joe W, No the buttonhole slot is qhite different from the round hole used for the screw backed badges. The slotted hole sgown in the picture exhibits much different characteristics than the round hole for the screw type badges. The slotted hole clearly shows that something has been inserted in the hole and turned were as the round holes stay the same shape because the shaft on the badge and the nut device that holds it in place to not p[ut any starin on the hole. Regards, Gordon

Zsolt, Thanks for the post. I visited the Military Museum this morning and they gave the same information but very kind of you to share you knowledge. We have come across two other markings for the Hungarian State Mint. Another one is P.V. which is found on a Free Fall Para badge in my collection and some other smaller badges plus a similar makring to the one I aksed about previously that only uses three letters which I think are MVP. Charles can confirm, or correct, that fact. Cheers, Gordon

Richard S Thanks for posting your medals. I would like to have a silver one to add to my bronze. The reverse of the bronze caught my eye though. I had never noticed before, but on the reverse just to the right of where the sta is attached to the wreath there is a makers mark. It appears to be a small triangle with a star at the top inside the triangle. Along the inside of the base of the triangle it looks as thought the letters "MAZV" are printed. Can anyone else with one of these medals confirm those are the letters they see on the award in their collection? Does anyone know who the maker of these awards was? Cheers, Gordon

Florian, Sorry but I put my collection into stoarge when I moved to Budapest last summer. I'll be going back to Canada this summer and perhaps I can download a picture of this uniform from my hard drive there. If I can, and I remember this request, I'll post the picture for you. Regards, Gordon