hunyadi

This was recently up on the favorite auction site and I have my suspicions, but I am really interested to hear what you all have to say it was...

Very interesting and unique! I would take a stab as it being the guy far right middle row - looks like he lived in New York.... ;)

My German is really rusty - help please...

Hi Mike - Thanks that seems to make sense but the Interm attilas I have seen dont seem to have any less decoration on them (at least to me) but this is a new branch for me - so down another slippery slope I go.... ;)

I have been looking at imperial hussar uniforms and the $2k +++ to shell out for a nice field gray is a bit much for me so I keep looking into the romatinc Victorian era of the blue, green and red stuff when the war was still just a whisp of horror away... so here is my question What does it mean to say "Officers Interm Atilla"???

See the post just above the one you posted... Munkas Orseg = Workers Militia

I have no doubts on the medal itslef - however the ribbon looks like a "modern" replacement style. There are litterally miles of the wartime ribbon available still today and they are being manufactured and sold as WW1 era ribbon with modern hardware. The weave is not as tight as I would expect on this ribbon along with the pure "sheen" of the silk. The swords and the "K" are also being reproduced in mass for the collectors market. Still - its not a bad item to have in your collection. The Austrian items are unfortunatly all too overlooked in the collector community at large

Well - I am happy that you are just as confused on these as I am - I have encountered both the red ribbon and the "multi-colored" ribbon - as to why or whatfor - still it does not make much sense. How did you know it was for pledges to the Party - was there a news article or something? I never found anyone who had any answers or any documentation on these. :unsure:

Here is the obverse of the medal...

Here is the medal that was given out at the 2nd MSZHSZ congrees - apparently 1951 with the new design - this is the silver grade of the medal there was also a bronze award as well - have not encountered a gold version - but perhaps there was - however NO documentation only leads to speculation as to what or why they were even awarded - excpet probably "I was there" medal???

Here is the first type badge - founded in 1948 - my goof on the previous dates... the details on the badge are on page 77. I had forgotten if I had it in the book or not...

Yes this is a MSZHSZ badge - no.... This is the Rakosi era pattern of the badge. The first type (as seen on the uniform in the book) was from 1948 then sometime after August 20th 1949 this type of badge was used.

This is the Hungarian Freedom Fighters Association Magyar Szabadsagharcos Szovetseg Second type badge. I believe this was instituted in 1949 / 1950 (If I recall correctly) Basicly this was a Party organization that was started to recognize Party members within the Hungarian Honved - when "political" affiliation was forbidden in the Honved under the Tildy government. After Rakosi and the party took over they went to the more overtly Party type symbolism. This is hard to say if this is a cap badge or a badge worn on the tunic. See page 29 of Elvtars to see what the first pattern badge was...

I do understand and I am not taking it personally - I just dont see any profit for modifying a perfectly good "broken" (IE missing the Rakosi coat of arms) Excellent Platton Leaders Badge with using a coat of arms from 1957. The size of the coat of arms that is needed is one from the Order of the Red Star. I have no doubt that the State Mint probably sold little baggies of these particualr size coats of arms back in the 1990's. Perhaps the individuals making these badges actually took apart an Order of the Red Star and then affixed the coat of arms. Either way - when I purchased this badge back in 2007 the price was just above that of a cased Order of the Red Star 1957 version. So where was the profit in this? Selling it as a pre 1957 piece with the coat of arms missing would have turned a much larger profit at auction or even the shows. I bought it becasue it was different and I bought alot of items that would certainly be odd and differet simply because they were probably in my mind prototypes because making fakes or fantasy items at the time would bave been and still would be plainly unprofitable for the effort and time involved. The transition period after the revolution certaly left the State Mint, the Party and the desigeners with a quandry of what the next phase of the image of the HUPR was to be - prototypes of old badges with new symbolism I dont think should be cast off as "unlikely" unless there is clear documentation from the State Mint that this never happened. Not being a Hungarian, I cant get any of that documentation from the archives. But you are probably right - as the collecting field is - with just a few experts when they all say its a fake its a fake no matter what. The economic logic (which is all the fakers work off of) still makes not sense to me that this is a fantasy badge...

I still dont buy that one enough - the badge with an original Rakosi coat of arms would fetch probably five times what I paid for this one. If these are being reporduced then why are they not flooding the market? The demand is high. I would have expected to have seen at least three or more on Vatera or even Ebay over the past few years - but I have not seen any... or have I been missing them all??? I still think this was a State Mint prototype - or produced badge but was sold off in the 1990's.

:speechless1: Thats an amazing find Greg - your source is certianly coming through for you. :cheers:

A very nice example of the "sunshine on a stick" as I liked to call the agricultural awards. There are several variants of the specific awards in the wording along the banner. This is not a very common one as I recall.

Greg - WOW on the PRO document, that is probably more rare than the AVH item!! The ribbon is certainly a Karhatalom piece. Is the riboon "prong" aluminum or is it sheet metal steel? If its aluminum it could be made in the late 1970's or even latter. If its stamped hseetmetal its early 1960's.

Hi Greg - yes the ribbons on the AVH (Karhatalom) Long Service Medals. Im always interested in the production of the ribbons as well - they do help to give a timeline as to production with thier construction, loopes - etc...

Greg can you post a better shot of the ribbons on these?

The minis on these and the minis for the commemoratvie medals of the Hungarian Soviet Republic always seem to be in short supply. More than likely the original numbered minis seem to be lost. Dealers like to match up with readily availble 1983 issue minis to make complete sets. At the flea markets and the militaria shows you can always find the gilded stay brite partizan minis in mass. The mint seems to have produced thousands of extra minis and then sold them in the early 1990's to the collector market. Still - its a nice set to have the badge and the case.

Wow - that is a very nice promotion document - I have never encountered one beofre. The best I could do was an old document from a trial of the "People s Courts" concerning the death of a jew during the siege of Budapest. The signature is interesting I will try and see if I can dig out my document from 1945 when he was signing vehicle registrations cards... Too much stuff to try and find...

Greg the name appears to be Kiss Martinone (or the wife of Kiss, Martin) very common practice thena nd even now to refere to the wife. It appears that she was born in 1910 - but for some reason she never had a job as there are no entries. She was in all probability just a housewife. The scans are a bit small so its hard for me to decipher much more...

OHHHHHH - I have been looking for a silver award for many a moon - my bronze fell appart after the move - the star became un-glued (literally!) its glued on there with epoxy - or it was simply fixed at some point... but this is another badge I kick myslef for turning down so many examples offered.... Very Nice Find :beer:

That sums it up pretty much - I would guess that in 1955 the name was changed and the "overstock" of medals were probably ground down and the new name engraved. I'm now kicking myslef for turning down these medals that I simply thought of as "simple sport medals"....I found so many of them at the flea markets and I only picked this one up becasue it was the same one that was seen in my book for the photo of the AVH individual who is wearing the Excellent Shooting Badges :banger: