Yankee

You gotta that bend in the bar, for sure only massive orginals can do that. Great stuff

Both you Gentlemen had the right Duchy and as you correctly thought issued before the 20th century . The case is mid 19th for a Zahringen Lion Knight. The interior is a deep purple.

My apologies for not making a scan of the interior, lid only opens 90 degrees

Nope, but you are warm

Hello Gentlemen Who lives here?

Hi Wild Card Understand what youy mean, thanks for posting that beautiful example Certainly true a picture is worth a thousand words. I went on the net to find any further info on Otto Wennberg and strangely enough only came up with Der Rittmeister who has an example of a knight 2nd class w/swds ( swords in gold ) this type looks more like the hinged type as you talked about, certainly not the rings or loops that one normally comes across. Unfortunately no luck when Otto Wennberg was in business but judging by the example that Der WRittmeister has, safe to say he was an early order manufacturer. Sincerely Yankee

Hi SPM Thanks for your insight , an excellent idea to find out when Otto Wennberg was in business, must admit I never knew of this jeweler before Sincerely Yankee

Hello Would any memebers please tell me what time era this knight 2nd class/swds was issued. The center is gold and the swords are directly fixed to the cross, first I have seen this kind of sword mounting. Thanks Sincerely Yankee

For any collector interested in 1870/71 medal groups take a look at DNW's next auction lots of material

Hi Enzo Glade to hear the army museum is still there, had been some time ago that I was there but hard to forget all those Maria Theresa's. Unfortunately I will not have the possibility to send a foto out, he is no longer alive and the badge was sold off at an earlier time. I remember the badge well for it was one of my favorites unfortunately as a student didn't have so much funds to make a offer. I am certain the war decorations was solid gold on both sides of the Eagle not around the shield. I have never seen another like it to this day. Also the badge was not hallmarked which as I understand prior to 1866 or 67 they were not marked. Any possibility the war decorations for the Iron Crown was introduced in the Italian Campaign. Are there documented groups of the Iron Crown w/war decoration being in enamel. If that is the case I'd suspect then the piece that I saw was pre 1866. As I recall there was no enamel inside the crown. About what year did the Austrians replace the design of the badge to the current form. Sincerely Brian

Hi Enzo Thanks for the info if I'm ever lucky enough to find myself a gold example I'll scan to you first. There is a military museum in Vienna not too far from the train station that has dozens upon dozens of these beauties & as I recall with a foto of the recipients. A friend of mine had an interesting example of the Iron Crown from the 1866 war 3rd class cased. The war decoration wreaths was solid gold( no enamel ) and the crown was also solid gold. Would it have been an earlier badge that was reissued with war decoration for the 1866 conflict or was the war decoration wreaths ( solid gold )issued before 1866 maybe the Italian campaigns? Sincerely Brian

Hi Elmar What a great piece not every day one gets to see a early commander. I do recall that all the orginal exampels were made in gold and the silver gilt were just fakes. Just curious in the later stages of WWl were the badges issued in silver gilt at all, like the other Austrian orders. Does the same rule apply for the St.Stephen as well where only orginals were in gold? Would they be issued toward end of WWl in gold too or are there orginal silver gilt examples? Sincerely Yankee

Hi Bernd Thanks for that now the hard part begins, finding a knight 1st class from an early maker before the swords were put on since the recipient died during the 1870/71 war. Sincerely Yankee

A merit medal from Alexander 1st time

Thank you Gentlemen for all your kindness in sharing such detailed information, fascinating to learn so many were awarded to foreigners especially Americans and a Canadian Does somebody know how that came about ( Americans awarded ) Was it mandatory ( recall ) that the veterans put swords above their cross after 1891 or was it at their pleasure? I understand from a collector friend who helpfully pointed out that many were done by local jewelers ( swords added on ) would any ever be done by a court jeweler? Most Sincerely Yankee

Hi Bernd D Thanks a lot for the info, any chance you would have an idea in how many were awarded ( knight 1st & 2nd class ) for the Franco-Prussian War? Not having all the info on the early makers are there any clear cut ways to distinguish an early 1866 era made piece to a later 1905 era made example? Sincerely Yankee

Hi Claudio Any possibility that you could find out the number issued for the knight 1st class & knight 2nd class (1866 1905) Sincerely Yankee

Hello Gentlemen Can any member share with us who were the ( Franco/Prussian war era ) early manufacturers of the Bavarian Military Merit Order knight 1st class & 2nd class? I only know of two for certain Adam Hausinger & Eduard Quellhorst. Like to locate a proper period piece of a knight 1st class for a group. Would it also be a possibility that the early badges were not jeweler marked at all? Thank You Yankee

I remember viewing wall to wall Grand Cross sets in their display rooms, a good many on the German States & Russia. I was surprised not to see them in the catalog. Perhaps a museum should be created for the sole purpose of just orders & medals run by dedicated collectors.

I have been a medal collector since 13 years of age, can certainly understand Ed's concern of medals being misused for improper purposes or falling into the wrong hands. Mark is doing something out of the ordinary that few would ever contemplate. To collect both fields simultaneously in such detail is no easy task. As a collector I can see the passion for imperial uniforms they are beautiful and historic. Dress uniforms were designed ( loops ) to hold decorations here is where the collector needs to decide how far to take it. There can't be too many imperial uniforms that still exist surely time would have taken its toll. Just as decorations they need to be preserved and if necessary restored for future generations. Sincerely Brian

Great he had the good fortune not to stick it in the ANS

Hi Mark The one that Igor has posted is a nice example a WWl era foreign example. A Russian one from that period would not have that center beautifully detailed.