Yankee

A commander grade example taken from an 1848 plate. Interesting to note the most ornamental ribbon ring, Perhaps added by the artist or are there known examples of this type...

Congratulations on an amazing find . Can't be too many of those laying around. If any other plates please show. Thanks Sincerely Yankee .

Absolutely Amazing even the ribbons are original. The complete run over three centuries. That must have been a long time in the making for you. Thanks for showing.

OUTSTANDING

How sad there was no stipulation in the donation of the collection to the National Museum that would have assured they be permanently displayed to the public. This does not guarantee there safekeeping in fact far from it. Not too long ago the American Numismatic Society sold off their entire foreign medal collection since that was not there main focus of interest. I'm not sure how the donors or heirs would have taken that. For the collector it was a windfall to obtain rare pieces that would otherwise been impossible to acquire. Perhaps there will be another windfall at the National Museum in Prague, why not if the collection never sees the light of day again. Interesting that the MVK reverse was specifically designed not to stain the uniforms. The same can be said for the private purchase LS Decoration, some even made with exotic materials. The Novel Beyond Nationalism by Istvan Deak is The Social & Political History of the Habsburg Officer Corps from 1848-1918. There is a small section that goes into the costs involved being an officer, which the uniform itself was a fortune and for many they could not afford to replace it so easily. Fascinating the A-H was the only Empire where the officers had to know several languages to communicate with their men who were from other different speaking parts of the Empire. Thats pretty impressive considering there was no Roseta Stone. If I should ever have the good fortune to come across an early MVK with a leather patch will not disturb it. . Every now and then I see a star being offered with a leather backing. I suppose that too was done for the same purpose. Thanks for pointing out the gilding on bronze adheres better than silver. Now that would explain how a 3rd class private purchase LS Decoration had no trace of gilt. The one time owner believed it was never gilded in the first place. The Decoration had a very unique dedication. As described to me it had the recipients four colleagues named on each arm of the cross. Sincerely Yankee

That is exactly what makes GMIC so spectacular, the members freely enjoy sharing their knowledge so others can learn. One of my first books I ever purchased was Mericka's Orders and Decorations. The Author is a genius, back than the flow of info was more limited, more time consuming, paper and pen correspondence yet he managed to put together a series of books that is widely used by collectors from beginner to advance and one can just marvel at those wonderful plates. In Prague had hoped to see the collections that were pictured from his book but unfortunately had no success. I suppose after the communist state collapsed, the great collections were dispersed or only shown on special exhibits. Another favorite is the Austrian Orders book by Prochazka that contains many one of a kind jaw dropping pieces and fantastic detailed research. I'm glade to know that the 50th should be made from silver-gilt and not the gilded bronze that one sees from time to time. Basically the forgers are taking a perfectly good 2nd class and adding a forged crown and turning them into a 1st class and hoping the unsuspecting buyers know nothing about the orginals should be in silver only. 51 a lot of luck will be needed to find one of those. Now I wonder if they were all dedicated on the reverse... All the best. Sincerely Yankee

I had nearly forgotten that excellent thread that you directed me to. I know Pavel to be an expert in his field and certainly can't disagree with his proven findings. I'd like to think most of what Robert McNamara wrote is accurate for great detail is provided especially on Hallmarks. Perhaps I relied too much on his work and not enough thought given to newer research that collectors have written. I do appreciate your expertise and the others, I can honestly tell you it is no fun having faulty facts. Once I had met Mr Rochowanski and his kind wife who was also expert. I was just amazed by how informative & helpful they were and the items he had was smashing. Didn't know that Rothe and Zimbler were the only makers for the 1st and 2nd class LS Decoration. Have seen a good amount of the 35/40 year crosses lately, hope those aren't being copied. I have noticed there seems to be a few jewelers that have made private purchase pieces, all the more interesting. Sincerely Yankee

I don't know this book nor the author but as you say it must be very informative. Does the book contain any illustration or description of the tax release mark? Sincerely Yankee

Hi Tifes Thanks for your kind comment on the LS Cross. Even the 3rd class decorations are hard enough to come by. I appreciate being corrected by having the proper translation from Dave and your thinking too. Unfortunately I was unable to find the head of a Greyhound or the head of Diana. I found one on a different cross with the head of Diana but without an Assay Mark who can figure....I must respectfully differ with you in regards to the purpose of FR stamps that are found on Orders & Decorations. According to Robert McNamara who wrote a Comparative Anatomy Of Medals And Order Insignia goes into great detail on stamps of Austrian Insignia. He was one of the leading collectors and authority on Austria and other Empire Nations, a bit before my time. He clearly states the tax release mark of 1866-72 is a dot between "FR" inside a rectangular punch. The next period is identical except the dot is no longer present between the "FR". The lozenge replaces the rectangular shape in the late period which begins in the late 1890's to 1921. If any Senior OMSA members should read this post and have a copy of Robert McNamara's work perhaps you'd like to confirm what I have stated. Sincerely Brian

Thanks, for some reason I was thinking non- military.

I hope my translation is fairly accurate. From The Lower Ranking Subordinate Officers And Civil Servants In Loyalty And Gratitude. Don't think he was from a line regiment, more likely the commissary, engineering or transportation. Any other possibilities please suggest. Only stamp marks is the "A" Vienna Assay Office & "FR lozenge" tax release mark.

Hi Paris Is that a Russian or German made Saint Alexander ? Can you show the bar if not too much trouble. Thanks. Sincerely Yankee

Funny you mention that quick fix in resolving this, one way or the other. Recently a respected member on this forum had given the Honor Cross a favorable review. He had the good fortune to examine the Brabant pieces that belonged to the Grand Duke in Darmstadt.

Tag Rudi Das ist fantastisch Absolut ein sehr informativ buch. Uberraschung nichts gebt auf Ehrenkreuz 1 klasse. Viele danke. Brian

Hi Chris Rudi already knows my German writing skills has a lot to be desired. Unfortunately that small body of water called the Atlantic will make it difficult for a close examination. Since such a small amount were ever manufactured and even less awarded, safe to assume there was only one jeweler without the slightest variations since it was only awded for a few years? Any idea how many were manufactured in the 1st Class Honor Cross & 2nd Class Honor Cross? Thanks Rudi. Sincerely Yankee

Additional fotos

Dear members Here is the Honor Cross 2nd class, as I understand there are dangerous copies of this order. If anybody has the knowledge to comment on this one please do so. It has been in a private collection for about forty years. The quality is excellent and the blue enamel looks to be the correct shade to the orginal examples but still.... Thanks for any opinions in advance. Sincerely Yankee

You truely have a fantastic research library . Its great to know that I have a verified recipient but never imagined 5 possibilities. Also surprised to learn that there were that many long sevice officers still serving at that time. Many kind thanks for all your help. Sincerely Yankee

Hi Dave I'm being optimistic that a member might have the schematismuses for 1917. There can't be too many career officers left in 1916 since they were decimated on the Eastern Front. Any idea where to retrieve info on the 35 IR? Excuse the previous poor foto, this should be better. Thanks

Can anybody name this Officer who received a 40 Year Decoration in 1916 who served in the 35 IR. Thanks in advance Yankee.

Grand Commander

Good point in wanting to boycot a dealer for life if its an item you can't find any where else. It is not just greedy & naive merchants that make a practice destroying bars but also collectors themselves who have no problem taking apart one for that desired medal to fit ever so nicely in their collection.

Dear GMIC Members For most it is common knowledge that Oldenburg has an enormous amount of high quality fakes in circulation & a good many are being valued as orginals. In regards to the stars & officer class examples there is a simple step that will allow collectors to differentiate a good example from a bad one. All genuine Bernard Knauer examples should have his first initial B stamped as B KNAUER on the reverse. Examples without the B and reads only KNAUER should be avoided & treated as post 1918 copies. Sincerely Yankee

Dear Gentleman Can anybody say if the medals struck in silver were for dignitaries, special puchases or simply fakes? In books only described as being issued in bronze. Must be a mistake I suspect.