laurentius

I must say I am intrigued by the quality of the Reuss Honour Cross. Maybe we should do an examination and compare it to the real deal. It is the only one of these 'pieces' which would take me more than a second to determine it's originality

I don't think Scharffenberg made this piece, although it does share some characteristics. Given Scharffenberg's location (Dresden, capital of the Kingdom of Saxony) and the decorations of this medalbar I think it might have been a home job. Perhaps as @Simius Rex mentioned done by the half-blind grandmother of a soldier who got the hardware for the medalbar from the same place as Scharffenberg. Made Scharffenberg even sold hardware to make your own medalbars. 

It is sometimes hard to imagine when wandering this great forum, but most bars were made in an okay-quality by housewifes, mothers or sowing-savvy soldiers who did it themselves. Having your medals mounted would usually start at prices of half a mark, going up per decoration (logical, since the base plate needs to be larger and more ribbon is used). This is the type of spare cash most veterans did not have after the war, which is why most medalbars are in a less-than-fortune state or why some medals were never mounted at all. The more you spend on your medalbar, the better it is preserved. It is no wonder most minty medalbars have a tag from one the top jewellers, these ones were made to last. A good investment which sadly most couldn't afford.

Kind regards, Laurentius

20 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

well it looks like the war merit cross 1st class from Brunswick, but I can't spot the 2nd class on his medal bar. If he doesn't have the 2nd class he fore sure wouldn't got the 1st. 

I wonder which picture is older: the one with the ribbonbar or the one with the medalbar. In the picture with the medalbar he is wearing both classes of the Brunswick war merit cross. On the bar it is the small cross behind the BMVOx.

Kind regards, Laurentius

14 minutes ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

Sorry, 

I was offline for some days. 

Did I got your question right, that you also wanted to know, if they ( the regents) recieved prussian or mecklenburgian orders during their regency? Albrecht was a knight of the black eagle before he was promoted prince regent, he also had the grand cross of the Henry the Lion before he became Princeregent. If he recieved other orders during his regentship I don't know, but I guess he did.

Same counts to Dukeregent Johann Albrecht, he was grand cross of Henry the Lion and the mecklenburger orders! I am pretty sure he recieved other orders during his regentship from other states.

No need to apologize. I was thinking more along the lines of decorations to officers and civil servants which you already answered. The regents continued to issue the Brunswick orders and decorations. Did these regents also have the right to issue Mecklenburgian or Prussian decorations? 

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Nobody has an idea or opinion?

Not even @BlackcowboyBS, our house expert on Braunschweig?

Dear fellow collectors,

When Wilhelm Herzog von Braunschweig died in 1886 the duchy of Brunswick was put under a Prussian regency to prevent the House of Hannover from ruling the duchy and possibly try to regain their former kingdom to the north. This regency lasted from 1886 untill 1913 when Ernst August, the son-in-law of Emporer Wilhelm II was made duke. His father Ernst August had been the original heir in 1886. The regency can be divided into two periods: the Prussian period under Albrecht prince of Prussia and a Mecklenburgian period under Johann Albrecht duke of Mecklenburg. I was wondering how decorations were bestowed during this period. Did the regents continue to award the Brunswickian orders or did they receive Prussian/Mecklenburgian decorations? 

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

6 minutes ago, David M said:

Msr Alphonse

He travelled to the Ottoman Empire in the small hearse with the small horse

3 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Hmmm, looks like someone pulled the swords on that one.

I agree, you can see differences in colour (the silver colour is less discoloured) where the swords used to be. Maybe the swords were removed to improve the price, maybe the piece got damaged and lost the swords. Shame either way. Cross seems original to me.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Here you go. The medalbar was made by Wilhelm Welhausen from Hannover, a wellknown maker of high-quality bars. This can be seen from the double ribbon used on the back and the thread which secures the medals around the ring. The RAO4 is made by J.H. Werner, just like my other RAO. The maker, together with the Mecklenburg connection is the reason I bought it. Given the Centenary medal, the DA and the RAO @Nicolas7507 and I came to the conclusion that he was most likely a major in a staff position, although you can never know for certain. This is the reason I asked what the job of staff officer would precisely entail, I find it rather intriguing.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors,

I recently acquired a medalbar I think would have belonged to a staff officer in the rank of major. I was wondering what kind of duties someone working in the staff would have? Would this be planning, keeping contact with the troops, administering supplies? Certainly where he did this would be important too, a staff officer on the western front would have wholely different circumstances to work under than say an officer on the Italian or the Romanian front. Do you guys have any thoughts or ideas?

Kind regards, Laurentius

18 hours ago, Triad08 said:

there is no visible indication or evidence to suggest that the subject bar is a modern contrivance or a forgery. The assembly techniques and the materials utilized are all typical of and consistent with other genuine Prussian bars dating from around the turn-of-the-century.

I wholeheartedly agree. Although the bar is in good condition you can see the wear and tear that slowly occurs both from wearing and from not wearing (where a bar is stored is just as important as the way it is mounted and the way it is being worn). The ribbon is a little faded, some little natural staining (unlike the tea-stains fakers tend to use) and the fraying of the white ribbon tying down the crosses show us the more than century old materials that together constitute this bar. It's probably not the first bar a starting collector will buy but the techniques used to identify genuine and fake pieces can be used on all bars. 

Dear William,

It could (and I think it most likely is) a baden Service award, however it could also be a Brunswick Order of Henry the lion. Given the silver swords on the Bavarian award (indicating either a BMVK2x or more commonly a BMVO4x) it could be possible.

Kind regards, Laurentius

If I'm not mistaken Claudio's brother Mario did a gouache painting of Von Roedern

Thank you Andreas, a fine biography, sadly it doesn't specify whether he produced for Austria too (if my German translation is correct he made civil and military orders for Bulgaria).

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors,

I had a question regarding Juweler Joh. Schwerdtner from the Mariahilferstraße in Vienna. I was unsure where to ask this question since this viennesse juweler primarily produced for the Bulgarian Tsardom. I was wondering how long the company existed (it stopped producing somewhere in the 1920's) and whether they also produced for the Austro-Hungarian empire and other countries?

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

4 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

 

Astounding the difference a uniform can make. One looks like an officer from the past, and the other one looks like my grandpa. It is sometimes hard to believe that these grandees and generals were mere mortals like us. 

A peculiar bird, there are many things I find questionable on this RAO, especially the design of the eagle. My cross 4th class has a better one than this 2nd class piece. I'm not the most knowledgeable on these so I'll wait for the more experienced collectors to give their opinion.

Kind regards, Laurentius

3 hours ago, ArHo said:

I don't believe the cross in this picture to be the MMJO. It is too big and it doesn't have the maltese cross-shape of the MMJO. Maybe a RAO3 given the white enamel? Could be some kind of commander-grade decoration.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Nice bar, though the MVO4x looks a bit weird, regilded perhaps?

1 hour ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

Hi interesting medal bar, but to be honest I am a little bit confused about this one! The prussian golden Military merit cross was only awarded to NCOs. The saxon Albrechtsorder with swords do hint towards an officer. How does that fit together? I have no clue.

Perfectly possible. Many NCO's got promoted to junior officers due to the sheer lack of young men who reached the standard of the officers corps. Combinations with NCO/junior officer level awards can be found quite frequently on the market. This is especially demonstrated with Bavarian bars containing both MVK's and MVO's.

1 hour ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

There shouldn't be that many saxonians who got the prussian golden mmc, so if I have the list of the saxionian regiments I can have a look in my lists, but as said first we need to find out how this combination could have happened.

Given the fact he wears the MMC before the EK (a weird combo often observed at the beginning of the 1920's, same goes for HoHx-EK combinations) I would suggest that this man is a Prussian rather than a Saxon

Kind regards, Laurentius

20 hours ago, Claudius said:

Godet (from Berlin!)

Maybe he was working there after the war. If you're in the capitol you might as well go to the best shop around.

It's a beauty and a special one for sure.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Iew,

The painting of Alfred Gölitz does show a greenish ribbon next to the EK-ribbon which could be the Albrechtsorden. Given his rank and the fact he wears a three-piece ribbonbar in the 1939 photo makes me reluctant to believe the medalbar is his. Maybe he had an older brother, a father or a nephew? Families usually don't keep very good track of things like this, which results in these kind of problems.

All identification problems apart, a lovely bar and a lovely photo, I am jealous.

Kind regards, Laurentius

3 hours ago, Claudio said:

Could be this one the son of the above mentioned?

His dad died (if wikipedia is correct) at the age of thirty. Our Freiherr von Vietnghoff was born in 1829 which would make him a rather young father at age 22. Cousins perhaps?

Kind regards, Laurentius

9 hours ago, 91-old-inf-reg said:

Laurentius, I would argue that that ribbon is for the 1936 Deutches Olympiaehrenzeichen. Although the the ribbons aren’t in focus on the ribbon, the center of the third ribbon would’ve been far lighter and the edges far darker, as yellow ribbons go, per Zentarmedaillie. 

I don't think so, the Olympia-ehrenzeichen has stripes going down the middle and black edges. Both are absent in the picture of Karl Löwrick.

Kind regards, Laurentius

51 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

I don't want to hijack the subject, but what did Von Mirbach do to get that lifesaving-medal?