Wild Card

Thank you Solomon, I sort of suspected that this was the case; and that is why I asked. Your translation is perfectly clear; and yes, one of these on a bow ribbon would be a rare bird; but who knows what may come along some day! Maybe, in the near future, we can all get together and do a thread on bow styled ribbon awards? Thank you again and best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Solomon, Thank you for a great presentation. What I especially appreciate is the fact that such presentations so well illustrate and give life to the significance of what are often considered relatively mundane awards; which in reality are rare and not to be taken lightly. I do have a question regarding these particular medals which is prompted by the document to a woman. Were these medals, like so many other Imperial German decorations, ever awarded or worn on a ?bow? style ribbon? Thank you again and best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Rick, Since any way you look at it this bar is bouncing around Brunswick, I just can not resist adding my two cents. Keep in mind that I am just beginning the ribbon bar learning curve. Because the Brunswick MVK is ahead of all others, except the EK, I am initially guessing that the recipient was a Brunswicker. That should make the next to last item something related to Henry the Lion - a merit cross, without swords of course, or one of the honor decorations. The last one is the clincher. As far as I can see, it would be either a Brunswick lifesaving medal or a Swedish Vasa Order of some grade. Considering the previous points, I would go with the lifesaving medal. I know that this does not give you a name; but maybe there is something helpful. Best wishes, Wild Card P.S. Thank you for the fascinating information regarding the Lippe medals related to the succession.

Hi Solomon, I can not tell you how much it means to me to get an approval from you on my medal bar. As I tried to convey in my notes on it, the concept was so different coupled with the fact that I had not been able to confirm any of it with what books I have, had always given me some doubts. Now, thanks to you, my mind is at ease. I look forward to the opportunity to repay this kindness. Best wishes, Wild Card

This is a telegram to ?generalmajor z d mertens zuletzt kdr der 39 inftr brigade hannover? Next line - ?ss h v berlin m m 70 8 m =? Body - ?neues palais den 3 januar 1986 - durch tapferkeit und geistesgegenwart erwarben sie sich unter ningabe des eigenen blutes beibapaume an der spitze einer kompagnie braver rheinischer jaeger das eiserne kreuz 1 klasze . zum zeichen dankbarer errinerung verleihe ich ihnen an dem heutigen 25 gedenktage hierdurch die krone zus rothen adler - orden 2 klasze mit eichenlaub = wilhelm r + "

Something different.

Gentlemen, Thank you all for your comments, compliments and questions. notned - Thank you, one of the main purposes of his presentation is to encourage others to stay alert for the opportunity to to the same Absolutely, if it were not for the internet, I would probably not have gotten the documents (yes, I did get those that were available) and the picture. Gerd Becker - Thank you, glad that you enjoyed it. No, sadly I did not get a document for the Hannoverian medal; actually, I have never seen one of these either. For some reason, Hannoverian documents seem to be exceptionally rare. Incidentally, the second model of this medal has the same reverse but the obverse is the same as what we see on the 1846 - 1878 coinage of the silver and gold civil merit medals. stogieman - Thank you, I attribute it to my early start with KG medals; you know Waterloos and MGS?s. I think that the key is patience. If part of the material is out ?on the market? chances are that the rest is as well, or will be; but luck plays a big part as well - finding it when it?s there. Ulsterman - Thank you; but I?m not much of a writer. As I may have said before, I was fortunate to have my collecting life develop under the guidance of George Seymour and Eric Ludvigsen, so my approach reflects their influence. Hence from early on I appreciated and found the real enjoyment to be in the digging and discovering. Glenn J - thank you for the additional information. This is particularly helpful in that I had previously thought that he lived until around 1903 or 1904. In closing, rather than bore you with scans of all of the award and promotion documents, I will present one item that I think is rather unique. I hope that you enjoy it (I also hope that I can work this darned scanner). Best to all, Wild Card

A "little extra".

Gentlemen, With regard to the medal bar in post #19 and the subsequent questions regarding it, I would like to offer what little additional information that I have. I bought this bar some years ago from George Seymour, who had done the best he could to identify. ultimately without success, the recipient. He did theorize, as Heiko put it in post #24, that the recipient had served in a hospital unit on the front and then a hospital back at home. That is the best and only explanation that I can offer as well. In closing, I would like to present a ?little extra? as pictured below. Thank you all for your interest and comments, Wild Card

Gentlemen, For the benefit of those who may have missed it when originally posted last November, and relative to the topic of this thread, I thought that it would be appropriate to present this little group again. Best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, I am not comfortable with the first cross. It looks to me like the reverse os a Lippe Detmold 1914 - 1918 KVK; but the ribbon is more like a Mecklenburg Schwerin KVK ribbon. Nothing wrong with the cross itself - just that the ribbon is a mismatch. No? Best wishes, Wild Card Oops, while I was writing this, Stogie clarified it.

Hi Paul, I think that this might be worth pursuing. I will get some pieces togrther (my collection is spread out to several locations) and see what I can do. Meanwhile, I would ask that any members who have any insight to this prinzen/reduction issue to let me know what their thoughts are. Also - What?s the answer Stogie? Congratulations to Christian for pointing out what my old eyes and fixed thoughts failed to see. Best to all, Wild Card

Hi Dan, Would a Landwehr decoration 1st class work? I?m referring to OEK #1977, a silver cross with gold center medallions which was awarded from 1868 to 1920. Best wishes, Wild Card

Christian! We have an expression. ?Sometimes you can?t see the forrest for the trees?. Nice going, my friend. Where have you been? Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Paul, Gosh, please do not be concerned, I never for a moment detected any sarcasm. Precedence aside, you are absolutely correct (unless Stogie can convince us otherwise) about the centenary ribbon being laid over the ?70 -?71 ribbon. Incidentally, what are your views with regard to prinzen and reduction pieces? We see prinzen EK?s all the time and other prinzen decorations on occasion as well; but it has always struck me that the virtually unheard of reduction pieces rate a recognized status as well. Might be worth a thread - what do you think? Best wishes, Wild Card

I have to agree with you Paul. I am not much on medal bars; but just the campaign decorations, alone, of this era are very interesting in their own right. I think that the 1849 - 1871 period offers tremendous collecting opportunities. While there is still a good variety of items available for under $100, even the rarer medals are not outrageous (yet); and the quality of order decorations is probably the best of the Imperial German era. Happy Collecting, Wild Card

notned Oops! As you may have noticed, I am still learning the finer points of medal/ribbon precedence. I thought about that for a moment, but then,,,naaah... the learning curve is getting steeper all of the time. Thanks for tonight?s lesson. Best wishes, Wild Card

The eyes are old and I can?t seem to be able to find my glasses; but for starters that centenary medal looks like a reduction or prinzen piece...?

and reverse.

His Hannoverian lifesaving medal, obverse.

Julius Hermann von Mertens.

Gentlemen, To me, one of the most satisfying aspects of collecting is the reuniting of related pieces and material which have become separated and scattered over the years, coupled with learning about the people connected to them. A classic case would involve an innocuous purchase made twelve years ago. In 1994, at Jeff Floyd?s OMSA auction, I purchased a first coinage Hannoverian lifesaving medal named to Lt. Julius Hermann Mertens. Being quite a rare medal, only 83 of this coinage were awarded, and with my particular interest in Hannover, it became one of my favorite pieces. About all I could find on the recipient (from the 1865 Hannoverian House and State Handbook) was that he received his award as a Prussian Lieutenant in 1856. This award date presents an interesting situation in that it is generally accepted that this first coinage was awarded from 1845 to 1847, when the second coinage was introduced. It would, therefore, be assumed that this award was, as was often done, from old stock. This matter of these particular coinage changes is another topic worthy of future discussion. The next step in this journey came about five years ago when, while visiting Eric Ludvigsen, I mentioned this medal. Those of you who knew Eric also know that was all he needed - the books and career of Julius Mertens? began flying around the room as fast as I could write. Ultimately, it was determined that Lt. Mertens retired to reserve status as General Major von Mertens, probably in 1896, after a very distinguished career. Fast forward to three years ago. Checking Detlev Niemann?s web page, I find a lot of documents to Julius von Mertens consisting of four promotion documents (Portepee Fahnrich through Major) and ten award documents. His awards were to go from the rare, but humble, Hannoverian lifesaving medal in 1856 to a crown to his Red Eagle 2nd class with oakleaves forty years later on 3 Jan. 1896. Aside from a few documents (they are out there and will show up someday), something else was missing; and finally, a couple of months ago, again through Detlev, we get a picture of our man. Below is Julius Hermann von Mertens and his Hannoverian lifesaving medal. Best wishes, Wild Card

Don?t forget the little guys!

Detail.

Gentlemen, I would like to present a medal bar which purports to be related to this topic for your evaluation. As I understand it, the swords on the ribbon are meant to signify the award of this medal - an interesting and, as far as I know, unique concept; but true? Assuming that point to be correct, why is it mounted between the two merit medals? All comments are most welcome - have at it. Thank you, Wild Card