leigh kitchen

Thanks, chaps - the Kitchen I'm after is Alfred Richard Kitchen, a corporal, originally of the East Surreys, later of the Labour Corps (he started off fit enough as he was a pre war bare knuckle fighter & a boxer in the army, but medically downgraded due to wounds or illness presumably?) He was from Rotherhithe & Deptford.

34th (Cumberland) Regiment of Foot (amalgamated 1881 with 55th (Westmoreland) Regiment of Foot to form The Border Regiment).. I believe that the markings stand for the 51st weapon of the Light Company, 34th Regiment.

Perhaps there's a little subliminal suggestion here - looking at those rivets on the Irish lid..........do they suggest nipples?

Just had a check of Mike Chappell's "British Territorial Units 1914 - 18", page 15 - "The only obligatory uniform for officers & men of the Territorial Force was regulation service dress, authorised patterns of full dress were laid down for each unit, but its provision was optional. If & when full dress was to be worn, Territorial Force Regulations clearly set out conditions as to its use. Officers badges of rank were similar to those in the regular army, the letter "T" being worn on the shoulder cords & straps in full dress uniform. In service dress the "T" was worn below the collar badges. A distinction of the Volunteer & subsequently the Territorial, was the substituton of silver or white metal lace & ornaments for any that were gold or gilding metal in the Regular Army. This was never popular, and the Territorial, it would seem, was not keen to be seen in the public eye as anything less than a Regular. As this rule was likely to affect recruiting, the War Office made provisions in TF Regulations for any unit desirous to adopt gold in lieu of silver to seek permission through its County TF Associations. Applications (which required full details of why the unit was requesting permission), once endorsed by the TFAs, would then be passed to the War Office for consideration. Many but by no means all TF units did apply & these requests, which are still on record, reveal that permissison was granted in every case".

Thanks, I had'nt got a clue other than that it was probably linked to Bucks.the dealer got them along with some IV Guards Bde patches, so perhaps the same man who served with both units.

Sounds like a game of noughts & crosses. She's hacked off at the moment 'cos somebody sent her a phone text yesterday - "Don't worry, you're safe - Bernard Matthews is only killing young birds with firm breasts" (for those not fortunate enough to lve in a land where dead turkeys drop from the sky, or would if they could fly that high, this is a reference to the current avian flu turkey cull beng carried out in Britain. Poor little buggeres must think christmas has come early). Off thread a little?

I knew what would happen when I typed "stripper" but I went ahead & did it. She's good at stripping - as in paint & wallpaper when we decorate - officer Zamo of the yard:

"Der Spiess"? In fact, here's a link to a site explaining the post of "Hauptfeldwebel": http://www.deutschesoldaten.com/ranks/hauptfeldwebel.htm I've read the other post now, so ok, not der speiss - good little page though..............

Ta - the London National Roll too please, for Alred Kitchen.

Yes, I suspect that their service dress may have become a little grubby, but I believe I'm right in saying that the regulations concerning lace & button colours were changed from silver to gold, possibly as early as August 1914?

Have you any more details about grandad? I can only find 3 men of his name listed as artillerymen in Soldiers Died, although a total of 10 are listed altogether. The 3 artilleryman all died in France & Flanders, so they won't be buried in Greece, although some of the infantrymen of that name would be. For some strange reason the CWGC site is telling me that it has no men of your grandads name listed.

Pte 8333 F Chapman, Born Camden Town, London, Resided Shepherd's Bush, Killed In Action France & Flanders 19/2/06 He is one of 1,300 Other Ranks & 53 officers (& the only "Chapman" listed as 9th Bn Royal Fusilier fatalities listed in "Soldiers Died". The 12th Division relieved the Guards Division east & north of Loos in September 1915 & later played a major role in the capture of the quarries at Hulluch, leaving the area in November but returning in February 1916 to take over positions holding the quarries & Hohenzollern sectors.

Got Alfred Kitchen of the East Surreys / Labour Corps in the LCC one anywhere? Which bit does your National Roll cover? I've got 2 volumes of them somewhere.............

I know it's not relevant to the subject of this thread, but isn't that the "FASA" mispelling of "FATA" variation of the Northumberlands shoulder title?

Was'nt officers silver lace changed to gold in 1914 shortly after WWI started, as a recruiting aid?

The cloth insignia was a cut down shoulderstrap from unservicable tunics, the LF used also this insignia as a beret badge with their primrose hackle in the 1950's, tho' I don't know if the beret badge was a cut down strap or purpose made embroidered nsignia (I still need one for my collection).

Anybody know what this is please - when I got it a few days ago I thought that the shield was red & blue & that it was perhaps connected to the Bucks Yeomanry if they'd been converted a Royal Artillery unit at some point. The shield is in fact red & black (which would be command colours). Is this an insignia of a Bucks Battalion or Bucks Yeomanry derived formation?

It.s possible that if you leave such an area uncleaned & let it tone then some detail may be revealed - polish it & you lose it, & have to wait for it to dirty up again.

OIt's been painted white for WWII civil defence use - the pwhite paint on mine just flakes off if you look at it, so it's easy to recover the original army green finish if you want to without stripper.

Interestimng that PTSD qualifies. When the British wound stripe was bought in during WWI "shell shock" & gassing were'nt sufficient to earn it - given the attitudes of the time then I can perhaos understand why shell shock did'nt qualify, but I don't understand why suffering gas burns etc did'nt qualify.

Crude filing etc was usually employed by a man who had lost or pawned his original or wanted to wear a medal to which he was not entitled, depending on circumstances this partial removal of details may have satisfied a person who then wore it as his own, I have a WWI Victory on which all the details had been filed & sanded down, but a few digits & letters were just abpout readable & the name unusual enough for me to find the original recipient by checking through the National Archives listing of Medal Index Cards. I have a WWI pair which has the naming removed & replaced by the details of a man who does'nt appear to be listed in the Medals Index Cards - although his battalion is added to the usual details, so prehaps a man who was'nt entitled to a WWI pair or who lost or pawned the originals. There is a slight possibility that a black light will reveal more detail, & if you talk to your local police scenes of crime officer nicely he may heat your medal with a blow torch & drop some acid on it, which is a good way of briefly raising the erased detail - but I have a suspicion that it would mess up the medal somehow. Has the suspender been replacedl? Medals of this vintage were often converted to menu holders, but having two holes drilled in the positions they are in on your medal does'nt seem to fit that use, & the medals used twould more likely be campaign medals. Perhaps it was converted to a piece of jewellery?

Please take a look at this thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1404...t=0#entry149478 I've added some more information on this man including newspaper clippings, a photo of him & photos of Citations & certificates from Congress & Oklahoma Stae Legislature...........

The foil Great Seal of The Stae of Oklahoma displayed with the pair of citations....... If anybody has any more information on James Lee Wood or can point me in the right direction in which to look for it then I'd be very grateful.

The Citation of Congratulations..........

The Citation..........