Ferg1

Just to add a little history about this actual piece. This medal was originally owned by me, but was part of a trade deal with a dealer for a army zeppelin badge a few months ago. The medal was bought originally by me from an auction several years ago ,it was the dissolving of the Colonel Dodkin collection of which this was a piece. A large amount of the Dodkin collection was,I believe, gleaned in the early 30's this piece was mounted on an old home made display board along with the other Lippe war crosses ,it was obviously made up by the collector/Colonel but was in my mind at least 50+ years old ,just the condition /smell etc. of the board told me it was fairly old. The detail itself on the medal is quite different from the usual ribboned pieces. The edge rim is much deeper than normal and the detail of crown etc is better. Everything I bought from the collection has checked out IMO original , pilot badges, some lovely old Imperial German awards etc... Just wanted to shed a little light on the history of this badge/medal.Ferg1.

Looks fine to me ,typical German made piece,maybe a BB&Co without the characteristic pin/hinge plate. Ferg1.

Hi,looks like a bronze basemetal example. It also looks like the very piece I traded to emedals,is it the same piece?? If so , I can vouch that it is original. Ferg1.

Hi Rick, you feel that there are many of these examples around?? (the FUR TAPFERKEIT ones ,that is). The one I have is the only one I have ever seen in all my collecting years. Plenty of the Tapfer und Treu types around but not this one. I would not have thought that anyone could just walk in to a military outfitters and claim an award ! If there are lots of them around maybe any of the members can show one.Ferg1.

Hi Rick, I know that this is not quite what you are looking for but I thought it would be of interest anyway and you will probably not see another one in a very ,long time ! Strelitz cross for distinction in war but with ' FUR TAPFERKEIT' reverse inscription. Godet made piece in solid silver. 36 made ,25 issued to royalty and high rankers only. The detail is far finer than the 'TAPFER UND TREU' examples. Horribley rare ! Ferg1.

Thanks Don, there wasn't a problem ,I just wanted to compare this set-up with a pilot badge with simular pin hardware. GWL style you reckon ? Ferg1.

Hey Don, would you be so kind to post a picture of the badges hinge from side on? That would be very kind. Ferg1.

The badge on Manions site is what I term the ' empty or spokeless wheel ' type of Bavarian pilot badge. ( one wheel of the undercarriage is spokeless). Everytime ,or almost everytime a Bavarian pilot badge comes up for sale ,where ever, it is one of these. Given the small size of the Bavarian flying corp and the amount of these types of badges turning up it is implausible that they are 'good ' !! They appear in various different formats ,single stamped ,two piece , cut-out etc..... Look for a Bavarian pilot example with the correct spoked wheels you will be hard pressed to find one .With every 75 or so of the 'spokeless' ones there might be one (if lucky) of the real period ones. IMO some of these are ,at best, 1930's re-issue pieces but there are electroed fakes of these too. Beware !!!!!! Ferg1.

Does anyone have an example/examples of the Austrian flyers collars device ( balloon insignia) I would be very grateful to see pictures,thanks Ferg1.

Sorry,here is picture.

Hi, here is the same badge on some sort of plinth, I was always of the opinion that it was a copy ,detail is poor . Could be a 57er ,I suppose ,I have seen Imperial aviation badges from the 57 period before, but one wonders as there must have been fairly limited demand by that time ! Ferg1[ IMG]g1.

Good point Don, I will second that , his items are dubious, Ferg1.

Hi Lee, yes the pin /catch location does see to vary from time to time higher, lower but I think the badge is out of the same die. Ferg1.

Hi Lee, no, bottom right,with the 800 stamp on pin. Ferg1.

Hi Lee, the badge you show I believe is 1920's/1930's . I too have an example marked 800 silver. I feel it is OK but not period war time. Ferg1.

Hi John , thanks for your reply, the badge in question is a Juncker marked marine zeppelin piece ,half sized. it is unusual in as much as it is two piece. Seperate zeppelin riveted to the main. These (although I have not seen another ) I believe are veteran association examples. Ferg1.

Thanks for your answers guys, you you think that the picture attached is a deumer pin,flattened top to pin and ground channel below hinge? Thanks ,Ferg1.

Just for the records,here is a picture I ' pinched ' from a certain sale site of the same badge but not in cut-out form. Same rubbish different format ! Ferg1.

Hi, could anyone enlighten me with any info regarding the Juncker/Deumer collaboration in respect of TR period aviation badges? Is this just a rumour or is there hard fact out there? Thanks,Ferg1.

Maybe my eyesight is getting bad but I have blown up the pictures of both badges and they look identical to me. The reverses look the same too . Can someone show me the difference? Ferg1

Hi Lee, I have seen several of these badges in the past and never really been keen on them or believed in them. it purports to be a Maybauer piece but differs in certain features and appears to lack sharp detail. I do not like the pin and catch style either. Although it is quite plausible that an Austrian Jeweller/supplier may have produced Prussian/German badges post war it would not have swayed me to bid on it ! Ferg1.

Here is a photo of the edge of cross as best I can. Ferg1

Thanks for the comments so far, the edges are coming apart in places and are fairly poorly soldered but this maybe a repair I guess. I will post an edge view today.Ferg1.

Here is a picture of the reverse seems to be a yellowy / nickel back plate. Cross is a shade under 40mm,front beading is corroded and rimless. The holes do not go through to the front so could not be sewn on . ???? Ferg1.

Hi guys, anyone care to venture an opinion on this EK thing ! Had it many years, never really could decide really about it early EK or crap ? Reverse is plain with twin holes in each arm. Interested in your thoughts. Ferg1