v.Perlet

Hello Chuck, that several manufacturers were involved is clear to me. My question was more as to adhering to given standards in regards to coating versions and the substance of the core-material. - which I believe was only Eisen/iron. If you say 'first design" you got me confused a bit, since I thought the closed version is the one that Willi approved in March 1918 - was it the Durchbrochene version then? Regards v.Perlet

Hello gents, found this photo whilst searching for a Goering photo in party uniform. The tall chap with spectacles on the left and the chap standing next to the Austrian seem to wear the Pour le Merite? Regards v.Perlet

Hello ostprussenmann_new, ..... I do not know. In case you might want to know. Generalleutnant Ernst Freiherr von Forstner - the photo was taken (see your picture) in 1939, presumably after August 1939 - the Reichswehr was transformed into the Wehrmacht in 1935. As such he is wearing a Wehrmacht uniform. NSDAP is a party whose members wore their own distinctive Party uniform (yellow-brownish color) e.g. Goebbels and Goering on the below photo. Goering before being appointed Chief of the Luftwaffe was also a General of the Infantry in both the Reichswehr and the Wehrmacht - see photo. - on the colored one you can see that the Reichsadler already beholds a swastika - so it would be Wehrmachtsuniform. Maybe this helps a bit. Regards v.Perlet

Okay I got it, it's not a Ritter awarded by a State e.g. Kingdom of Bavaria awards an MVO2KL (includes. Ritter) to Mr. so and so, but an Institution such as e.g. the Malteser order awarding it's own order (that beholds a Ritter) to someone. Thanks regards Andreas

Hussar's - what happened to their horses?? Regards v.Perlet

Hello Deutschritter, i do not want to derail this thread - but since you forwarded the question, maybe you can help me on this one. If someone is already possessing a hereditary title, e.g. Freiherr then what is the point of awarding him a Ritter? - I had noticed this on others as well - e.g. a Freiherr von Reitzenstein being awarded a Ritter. - is it about the "price-money" that comes with it? Otherwise isn't that as if you would award an English Lord a Sir.? Regards Andreas

Hello ostprussenmann_new at first I thought this picture doesn't make sense - the date 39 and reference to a former Regiment 24 years ago. After Deruelle, mentioned his name I checked my extensive war library, (google)? So the reason for this print/photo - was that on August 27, 1939, the so-called Tannenberg Day, he was given the character of General of the Infantry. More or less as to what Deutschritter wrote. As for his merits in English: Iron Cross (1914) 2nd and 1st class Knight's Cross of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern with swords Pour le Mérite with oak leaves Pour le Mérite on October 31, 1917 Oak leaves on June 7, 1918 Red Eagle Order IV class Order of the Crown IV class Knight of Honor of the Order of St. John Prussian service award cross Bavarian Order of Military Merit IV class with swords and crown Knight's Cross of the Military Karl Friedrich Order of Merit Knight's Cross II. Class of the Order of the Zähringer Lion Regards v.Perlet

Hello saschaw, thanks for that info - I never realized that, since I only possess one in black and I can't recall seeing those "official" descriptions on seller sites or e.g. evilbay when referring to this medal of WW1. Could any manufacturer or goldsmith create what ever versions they liked after November 1918? Eisen gold plated. Blech coated silver etc. or see e.g. Kaiserreich Verwundetenabzeichen gold 14 18 durchbrochen. https://www.ebay.de/itm/265454013211?hash=item3dce4acb1b:g:zYwAAOSwt2phufX8 BTW, who created the Durchbrochene version and why? Regards v.Perlet

Hello BlackcowboyBS thanks a lot! interesting read. Have you or anyone else ever seen or noticed a "Mattweisses (matt-white) Verwundetetnabzeichen"? before reading this article? it should be very rare but it is being offered for more or less the same $ as a black one. Or is Mattweis just another name for Silver? Regards v.Perlet

Hello hc8604, NO I NEVER said that these war awards/orders with these "high quality clasps" (that was meant as sarcasms) with these rubbish clasps - regardless of interwoven horizontal stripes or not, are real. They are 99.99% fakes. You need to have an original in your hand (in almost all cases known to me they are 20-25 % larger then these junk Orders) just judging from a photo without having seen and held certain medals/orders I would never state that this particular medal/order is real or fake. Then there are the so called replacement orders that were usually meant to be send to the families - these are also around 10-15% larger then those junk Orders. My knowledge towards war-awards/orders is restricted, I am more into Commemorative medals - I am however working on a task to get these orders in line with facts. Unfortunately these men I know who served in the Korean war are either 88+ or some already passed away in the last couple of month. Hopefully I will be able to meet one of them in about two weeks time. Now don't pin me down yet - but according to my research and present knowledge the famous medal showing a soldier with his gun before the Flag (the middle one on the top row) is not a war combat award. At least I have never encountered an original so far by any of the veterans that I know. General rule: any war award is either a pin-on/screw-on medal, or it has its own individual clasp and ribbon. To me it is a Commemorative medal - and an original would be with a needle-pin on the back. Take a look onto the photo I posted - all original war-medals are pin-on or display their own individual clasps and ribbons . the one on the "high quality" clasp with interwoven horizontal stripe is a FAKE. See the wartime photo - the original war award is a pin-on and about 20% larger then the replacement medal with a clasp - and those FAKES are in turn smaller then the replacement medal and/or do not show a 3D surface. Let's see if I get to know more in 2 weeks time. Regards v.Perlet

In general I am a person that let's people believe what ever they want to believe, as long as it makes them happy and has no negative effect on my life. (that even includes people who say that they had been kidnapped by UFO's) So if those who believe that these Commemorative medals are all fake - well that's their choice, on what facts these choices/opinions are founded would be however interesting for me to know. If you have photos of factories or countryside sheds, producing these Commemorative medals, selling at average for 1Rmb (that's US$15 cents for you) - feel free to post them. And just to be clear - I am referring to Commemorative Medals - NOT these "great looking ones' without a needle-system, but dangling from these 'high quality" clasps with beautiful red ribbons some interwoven with great looking white or yellowish horizontal stripes - fetching prices of up to US$150 in e.g. the States. Have a look onto the photo that 1812 overture posted. NONE of these medals is a Chinese PRC Commemorative Medal - NONE. Regards v.Perlet

Wait, you believe these are fake medals? I am curious now as to where you are getting all this information from. Regards v.Perlet

Hello chuck, someone or some people are a lot faster on this topic? have a look on: eBay-Artikelnummer: 203700820280, selling this stuff for 30-40euro The seller says it is based on the design by Paul Kredlow Regards v.Perlet

Hello gents, any idea as to who the maker of this MVK3KL X&K could be? I always wondered about the triangular ribbon set up - for an Austrian soldier? Even though this Bavarian Mountain fellow seems to wear it in the same fashion? And his cap also displays the Bavarian and Austrian mountain badge. Regards v.Perlet

? das will ich doch hoffen! - Gottseidank sind 99% meiner Sammlung von meinem Onkel - ein recht bekannter Sammler aus den 50 und 60 Jahren. I only bought 3 orders (all from evilbay) - one the MVO 4KL that you know, a MVK1X and a MVK2KLmit X+K Gruss Andreas

wow - that would mean that some people already started to fake these 20 years ago! is the ribbon new or old? Regards v.Perlet

Hello spolei, Here is a photo of my MVK 1KLasse with Swords - the ribbon might be a new one - not sure. Regards v.Perlet

sorry for the inconvenience, - the MVO 4 KL X, that I have (the flame discussion) - or the one I just posted which I might want to buy? -if the latter applies, yes that is why i asked Iew if his MVO is a JL as well. Thanks and regards v.Perlet

Hello spolei, how am I to understand this? That an MVO 3KL has different swords then a MVO 4KL? meaning it's own distinctive swords? - thanks Regards v.Perlet

Thanks for the help spolei and Iew- appreciated. I wasn't sure if just a Punze (marking) can be trusted.? Iew is your MVO (left one) also a Leser? Regards v.Perlet

Hello 03fahnen, yes correct, he could be anything from UFFz to Faehnerich Thanks for the input Regards v.Perlet Hello gents and Iew great photo and an even better looking Medal bar! I intend to purchase the posted MVO 4 Klasse - is it really a J.L? because the sword "ribbon"? does not look familiar to other crosses by J.L that I have seen. - The sword binding does however look very similar/identical to the left pictured MVO in Iew's medal-bar -comments appreciated. Thanks and regards v.Perlet

Servus, wos?! vie einfaltslos, und des ois unter unserm Kini - Schock Okay I got it now - thanks and regards Andreas

Hello Cathy Coomber, well, that the photo shows your Grandfather might make good sense - especially in view of "Engineers" and the timeline of the uniform he is wearing. Viewing the uniform - the Boer war timeline of 1900 jumped straight into my mind, but did not correspond with the timeline forwarded in regards to your Great Grandfather, e.g. Canada 1870 etc. The Canadian GRAND 'TRUNK RAILWAY BRIGADE consisted mainly of mixed "engineers", artillery and rifle companies/battalions. The Hungarian sleeve style embroidery - red circle, resembles that of an engineer company and the "crossed rifles or canons'"?- that of an artillery or rifle detachment marked by the blue circle would support this assumption. Have you tried to enter your Grandfathers name and data into the database of Engineer companies that served in South Africa? e.g. Royal Engineers, Railway Company, 8th https://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/imperial-units/190-royal-engineers?start=20 If you are certain that your Grandfather did not serve in SA during the Boer war - well then this try might well be fruitless. Till then let's see what far more knowledgeable people on the subject then me, might come up with. Regards v.Perlet

Hello GreyC, easy, easy cool down please. You stated: Not a German Oberleutnant shoulderboard from WW1 in my opinion. Not from WW1 - so you might just as well wrongly imply that they are from WW2 - how should I know? Assuming that you might refer to WW2 - I stated wrongly that they are certainly from WW1 - i should have added; they are certainly from WW1 "or before" - or "they are certainly not from WW2". I don't think that I need to apologize to you, due to you and me not being precise enough in our statements. So don't bring in "decency" - just take a deep breath, relax and see if you can help me to find out what state and service branch these boards belong to - thanks. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Cathy Coomber, I agree with Bayern that the uniform on your photo does not resemble that of the Army Hospital Corps But this does not imply that your great grandfather might not have served in the A H Corps - e.g. after this photo of yours was taken. So let's see what Bayern might think about the photo I posted. Which might give a lead as to what previous unit he served in, and thus a possible insight towards his career. Regards v.Perlet