Wilco

GG, Unknown maker

L. NBG.: Christian Lauer N?rnberg

W&L. M. : W?chtler & Lange Mittweida

G&S: Glaser & S?hne Dresden

O.6: Orden-Herstellergemeinschaft Pforzheim

Here my B.H.L.

Yes the statute of SS DA from 30.01.1938 (RGBl. 30.01.1938, I, no. 8, p.66)

Yes I did, but it gives us only the known and regulated order of Presedence, specially on Ribbon Bars. We are trying to look beyond that for there were many worn in a different way. But off course in our final overviuew we should not forget the wear order in the ribbon bar for a complete picture, thanks.

Together with a friend I am searching German records to find out if there were specific regulations in the way ribbons were allowed to be worn. Off course it is known how most specific decorations were to be worn, but we are trying to find out the GENERAL Regulations, if there were any. Checking through many regulations, we have found some, but we could use help in this to complete it. General regulations of wear for Deutsches Heer in WW 2: - It is allowed to wear up to two ribbons of war awards (EBS, EK II, KVK 2., OstMed., BaltKrz., KVM) in the second button-hole. - It is forbidden to wear the following to two ribbons of war awards together; Honour Roll Clasp (EBS) and ribbon of the Iron Cross 1914 with an Iron Cross Repetition Clasp 1939 (EK II + WiederhSp.) on it at the same time in the second button-hole. You have to wear the EBS in the button-hole and the EK II + WiederhSp. on the ribbon bar. - It is allowed to wear the ribbon of the Medal for Lifesaving in the second button-hole, even together with two war award ribbons. - It is allowed to wear up to two Wehrmacht Long Service Awards at the same time; these are the correct combinations: DA IV, DA III and DA IV, DA II and DA IV, DA I and DA III as well as DA I with Oakleafs and DA III. - It is allowed to wear the last achieved Wehrmacht Long Service Award together with one other long service award (= SS-Dienstauszeichnung, PolizeiDA, RAD-DA, TreudienstDA, Luftschutz-Ehrenzeichen, FeuerwehrEz, GrubenwehrEz ). Comment: The GrenzschutzEz is missing! - It is allowed to wear the Blood-Order / ribbon of the Blood-Order in the button-hole of the right pocket-flap. - It is allowed to wear the ribbon of the KVM in addition to the ribbon of the KVK 2. m.S. or KVK 2. in the second button-hole or on the ribbon bar. - It is allowed to wear up to two sport badges on the left side beneath the orders / combat badges. Special regulation for Waffen SS: - It is allowed to wear one SS-DA (4., 3., 2. or 1. grade) in the button-hole of the left pocket-flap.

Looking at the total grouping on http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Documents/d196.htm I see some other strange things. The documents state he would have been awearded the Nahkampfspange der Luftwaffe and the Panzerkampfabzeichen der Luftwaffe o the same day. The photos of him with decoartions show on one the Fallschirmjager and Erdkampfabzeichen and also the EK2 (right photo) AND THE LEFT PHOTO SHOWS: Panzervernichtungsabzeichen on the right arm, The Fallschirmabzeichen and Erdkampfabzeichen as on the other photo, a Verwundeten in Black and an EK1. Over the right breast pocket is the Wehrmacht Nahkampfspange in Bronze. Probably received in stead of the Luftwaffe version that was awarded, but strange he does not wear any sign of the also awarded (on the same day as the Nahkampfspange and with the same kind of document) Luftwaffe Panzerkampfabzeichen of a Wehrmacht replacement of it.

With all respect, but that is something I can not agree with. I can neither see wether it is or it is not. Even with some fantasy I can see the Luftwaffe Eagles wings on the left and right above over the ring. But looking at it differently I could state it does not. Sorry. A authentication declaration as of Nimmergut does not say anything I am afraid should be mentioned. It only discribes the characteristics of the specific exemple. This all could very wel be, but as well as there is no evidence they were produced, there is no evidence they were not. All can be stated in my vieuw is that the decoration was instituted, so it could have been produced, but no proof is at hand. The document grouping of the dealers website are photo's, but by no means any proof. The document shown here shows us a award document (Verleihungsurkunde). It is very unlikely that a official Verleihungsurkunde would have been presented in this way. I don't state it is a fake, I just state it is not proven it is real. I would be more convinced if this was a preliminary award document. Also I am somewhat sceptic by the declaration on the document which states why it is presented this way. It states that the document can be seen as an award document beceause of paper shortage it has been decided not to produce a proper document. Then it has been signed by a Hauptmann. I think such a notice would have to be signe by a higher ranking officer, but I can be mistyaken off course. Besides that I have seen proper documents of other decorations awarded round that same period. Why would for those there have been no paper shortage and for this one it was?

Don't know if it helps or can give some more research material: Luftwaffe Close COmbat Clasp on Werhmacht Awards Here is stated that: "One of the earliest Bronze awards was presented to Obergefreiter Albert Mohlmann of the Hermann Goring Division on the 19th December of 1944. The next month, Hitler presented the fisrt Gold Award to a NCO" Unfortunately they do not give any conclusive sources for this statement.

Well lets be honest, the statement just points out the vieuw of the person that made the statement and he concludes on base of a very unclear photo that the clasp was awarded at least to the person on the photo. I think we all should be honest, the photo as it is placed in this thread does not give us the conlcusion that either the CC Luftwaffe clasp is shown on the photo or that it is another clasp that is shown. The statements made by other members here can be true and are probably so, but with the best intentions I can not conclude that either on the base of this photo. As historian I can only look at the facts so far. 1 The clasp was instituted by Stiftungsverordnung (institution declaration) on 3rd November 1944. 2 In that same institution the award criteria were stated 3 By declaration of the OKL (Bekanntgabe des Oberkommandos der Luftwaffe (O. K. L.) vom 13. Januar 1945) it was stated that received CCC of the Heer could be exchanged for the Luftwaffe version. 4 So far no clear evidence has been produced in this discussion here that the decoration was produced, awarded or presented 5 Statements are made that the decoration was awarded on paper, but no scans or sources have been recorded in this discussion here. and this all where I only was searching for some photos as an illustration

It is sometimes important to correctly translate quotes in order not to miss the finesses of which is stated. German almost is my second language. This qoute sais: "Some time ago a collector gave me me a photo, which was a copy of an original, which shows a soldier of the Division "Hermann Goring". This soldier wears, amongst others, also a Nahkampfspange der Luftwaffe (Luftwaffe Close Combat Clasp). This is the first time a photo is shown that documents that the Nahkampfspange der Luftwaffe has been awarded and worn."

Could be. I agree no awarding has untill now been recorded. Also it is to my knowledge unknow wether they were produced (see the similarity with the Marinespange). But also I think not much research has been done to this one either.

Nahkampfspange der Luftwaffe was very different. Instituted on 3rd November 1944 in three grades, Bronze, Silver and Gold: <a href="http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/lw-nks.html" target="_blank">http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/lw-nks.html</a> Before that date, indeed the Wehrmacht Nahkampfspange was used. On 13th January 1945 it was decided that the Luftwaffe groundforces that already obtained a Wehrmacht Nahkampfspange could exchange the Wehrmacht exemple for a Luftwaffe version. For the purposes I need the photo it is not interesting wether the decoration was actually awarded or not, It was insituted, so it could have been awarded. Just need the photos.

For our project www.ww2awards.com I am searching for nice usable photos of the various classes of the Luftwaffe Close Combat Clasp. Anyone can help? Photo's or scans need to be large enough to work on the background (we finally need a black background). Off course we shall credit the owner on our website.

This is all I could find: Zanzibar Medals and Decorations

This person tries to sell all kinds of decorations, mostly WW2 German. He sends you photos he himself took form the internet. He offers intersting prices. He does not have any of these decorations in his posession.

Wat's interesting is that most literature refere to Hermann Lang as receiving the DKiG on 28th November 1942 as Oberleutnant with Radfahr-Abteilung 72. Here can be seen that the award date should have been 1st December 1942 with Aufkl?rungs-Abteilung 72

Here a denazified version of the Gold Woundbadge 1939, with excellent denazification work.

Also awarded to and worn by military, the Four Day Marches of Nijmegen Cross. Next Tuesday they start again on their four days walking. This is the one I myself earned in 1997.

The medal it self was instituted on March 31st 1950 for Red Cross volunteers that were active during World War Two in any relation to the Red Cross or the work of the Red Cross between May 10th 1940 and May 5th 1945. Also it could be erned for Red Cross work or work in relation to the Red Cros when involved in the rebuilding period in the Netherlands or the Dutch colonies right after the war. In the post war period in the Dutch East Indies/Indonesia there was for years a war like situation with guerilla warfare, liberation warfare etc, which finally resulted in the new State of Indonesia. Specially for Red Cross workers and Red Cross work that was being done in the Dutch East Indies/Indonesia right after the war the clasp "Indonesie 1945-1950" was introduced. About 1200 of the clasps were presented and about 10.700 crosses. (Source Rode Kruis Herinneringskruis 1940 -1945)

A nice Dutch Medal from the Red Cross, the 1940-1945 Commemorative Cross. Her a version with the 1945-1950 clasp for rebuilding the Dutch Colonies of the Dutch East Indies, with awarding letter.

When I work further on this, I'll sure be back with some questions