The 2nd one was listed as a copy,but from the little picture it could also be a "Deumer"....The first one-what do you expect? This one with the slide attachment is a kind of fashion! Rare,but not so rare that I would pay this price! And don't forget(for all who are watching Ebay.de......There are 3 guys with really big money-axhedge(from Britain),Chinook(a Doctor from Hamburg) and Funkjoker(the winner)! All of them overpay all the time,some of them sometimes really didn't know what they've bought! So no chance for me(Im still looking for this variation)-but hey-I got my Werner screwback for less than the half.... Micha