Harrier

Lining correct.

Lower buttons properly placed.

Sleeve rings (one-piece) and buttons.

Here's a French one (same time period).

Here's the problem: the lower set of buttons is too low next to the side pockets.

The sleeve lining is a perfect match and typically European.

The former location of sleeve rings (with some thread still in place). This area could easily be "steamed out" by a cleaner and new rings (especially admiral tresse) added on top.

The lapel buttonholes are right.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2009/post-2778-1236808607.jpgHere are a couple of tunics which could be, except for a couple of points which I think are important, easily converted to KM tunics by any halfway skilled person with a sewing machine. First up, a Danish tunic from (I believe) the late 40's or early 50's.

Eduardo, I don't have yet any KM tunics which I know were made in other countries (although I have one on the way now made in Oslo, which I will post after I get it). The photos I will take tonight are of regular French and Danish ones! Best, Harrier

I knew Eduardo would have good information! I certainly agree about many tunics lacking the buttons underneath the lapels. My personal experience has just been that even on the tunics where these were lacking, the buttonholes themselves were still present. I am glad to learn that Eduardo has one without the holes! Regarding the tresse (rank rings on the sleeves), he is also right that other counties use different styles. I have seen fakes, unfortunately, where the only way to detect the presence of the prior rings (because they had been removed and other placed over the same location) was to look underneath the sleeve lining for tell-tale signs of other stitching patterns (circles, etc.). When I get home from work tonight, I will try to photograph tunics from France and Denmark.

Speaking ONLY from my personal experience, the buttonholes are always present on the lapels (running in a horizontal fashion) and the lower buttons always start at the level of the top of the lower side pockets and not below them. Member "KMSpain" here is a true expert and might be able to say better. The reefer jackets of other navies, especially European ones, are a fertile ground for fakers of KM tunics, but (again, in my observation) the buttons are placed differently. The lapel buttonholes are also sometimes different, with French jackets having a buttonhole only on one lapel. Danish jackets are almost correct, but, again, the button location is a tell-tale factor. Bundesmarine tunics are often converted by adding an extra set of buttons, but the location is a giveaway, with the buttons being below the line of the side pockets. I suppose tailoring COULD vary somewhat, but I would be extremely wary of any tunic which deviated from these standards.

Just a little update. I just attended the SOS in Louisville, Kentucky (supposedly now the largest show in the world) and made a special point to look at Spanish Crosses. There were quite a few there, with (surprisingly) almost as many good ones as bad ones. There were some exceedingly fine pieces, including at least 4 Gold class ones in very good shape. Only saw (I think) 2 cases (Silver). Prices were not as bad as I feared, but still pretty high. There was a very nice, uncased Next-of-Kin cross being offered for $4500. There were several "drop-tail" crosses there, but all were fake, with poor eagle detailing, incorrect hinges, pins and catches, and lightweight construction. On most, the eagles were not even soldered to the cross arms, only the swords. Only 2 were being offered as originals, both by dealers whose other inventory was absolute junk. I did not see a single piece which compared favorably in any way to the ones I posted here. This, of course, does not mean that there are real ones, only that IF there are, they are very scarce indeed. Saw a very few documents, with most being for the Bronze class (although I did see one Silver with swords). Prices were @ $350-750. So...if you're looking for Spanish Crosses, you can still find them if you're willing to pay for them!

Here (to be taken lightly!) is what a dealer might say: "Fine duplicate pilot badge made for a Kriegsmarine officer in a foreign port, probably in Asia, perhaps Japan (which adopted silver fineness marks in 1928). Very unusual casting of a real badge. Slight damage to one arm of the swastika (made by the jeweler as a separate piece). Very strange rivet design, with rivets showing rust oxidation from exposure to salt air (as onboard ship).Mounting hardware certainly copied from standard naval badge, to suit officer's tastes. UNIQUE!"

Maybe it's a jeweler piece. That navy pin set-up is just weird enough to be believable. Of course, being unique is not the same as being real, but it certainly is interesting!

First like this I've ever seen. Certainly an interesting design, even if it is, in fact, a fake.

Supposedly Godet....

Paul, Congratulations on finding a VERY rare badge! Harrier

Scott, You raise a very interesting point indeed. We all know that many badges are unmarked. Many unscrupulous people have added false marks to original unmarked badges, believing that marked badges sell better. From time to time, we even see an original badge labelled as a fake because the mark is bad, only to see the badge (sometimes and not always, regretably) redeemed when the people who really study these things realize that the underlying badge matches exactly a type found also in a marked version by an identified manufacturer. The CEJ issue you raised before is very valid. Why on earth would a company keep using a (supposedly) discontinued mark on one type of badge but not another? Was there really any fixed and hard rule for this or did companies just not pay much attention to the stamps their workers were using, just so long as the name was correct? What rules applied when one company made badges under subcontract to another? Did they use a stamp supplied by the main contractor or did they use a stamp they themselves created which created another, previously unknown, version of the main contractor's identity mark? Many questions, but few answers. Why do we see companies using their PKZ as well as their LDO numbers on the same badge? Why were Knights Crosses still available for private purchase after October 1941 (and we know they were because Hartmann, Glunz and others have related buying pieces at shops after that date)? More than anything, I wish we had really good information from those actually involved in the manufacture process, but very little of this is available anymore. We are scrambling in the dark and it is very frustrating........... Best, Harrier

Jacques, It would be a very dull world if we all agreed all the time on everything! I very much respect your views and can understand why you feel the way you do. The "down-tail" eagle on these crosses is an enigma. It is simply my feeling that the early production of Crosses was in rushed fashion and that manufacturers were confused by conflicting illustrations and the simple guide in the announcement that the central swastika would be circled by 4 "Luftwaffe eagles with swastika", without specifying the exact form of the eagle. This is especially so as many in the Luftwaffe, both officers and enlisted men, continued to wear (in 1939) the early eagle on a daily basis. With officers (and enlisted personnel in private purchase uniforms) this continued until the end of the war (at least in limited fashion), without any repercussion at all. There are a multitude of fakes of both down-tail crosses and swoop-tail crosses. What were the fakers copying when they made the first down-tail fake? I personally believe they were copying a real one they had seen. I hope the day will come when we will truly know all the variations made and who made them. Regarding Godet, I too would like to know which (non-Brilliants) Cross they made. Best, Harrier

Thanks! :beer:

Beautiful! Love the silver w/o swords! Do you know the maker of the one on the left with the horizontal swastika? These have have always intrigued me as a great variant.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-2778-1235444219.jpgNot a Spanish Cross, but I couldn't resist tonight! Sorry it's ......

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2009/post-2778-1235443379.jpgJacques has inspired me! :beer: