Komtur

Another one for Rick or for Daniel? It is only a photocopy and I had to cut the poor fellow in the right size. But everything important is to be seen. As oral information it is a medical person. For me unusual: The Kombination of relatively low REO3bow and high HOH Komtur with star (rarrrrrrre and one of my favorites!). Greetings, Komtur.

...the back

In between there was a visit here too This one and Ricks are in my opinion the typical awarded item of the Berliner M?nze. It was minted there, but the finish was done in another firm (or for the small series produced over 20 years in the Berliner M?nze may be in different firms). That could be the reason for the difference in the enamel.

Often the way of mounting the decorations on the bar is indeed not accordingly to the rules. But in this case it is correct: "Die Dekoration des Rothen Adler-Ordens mit der Krone ist nicht abzulegen, wenn dem Inhaber sp?ter eine h?here Klasse desselben Ordens ohne die Krone verliehen wird." AKO vom 29. Juni 1894 (aus Hoeftmann, Preu?ischer Ordensherold, zweiter Nachtrag von 1900). Indeed, pics of persons decorated with the Red Cross Medal 1st class are hard to find, so here is another one . But I have seen unfortunately no more. If someone have one, please show it! Generalstabsarzt der Armee Otto von Schjerning (by the way he is wearing the REO 3 with crown and the REO 2 with oak leaves with the star):

I love you all on this site Thanks magic Rick, and thanks Glenn (who sends me copies of the KWA Stammliste - about 650 pages! - a few weeks ago). You make me happy, because these medical officers are my favorites! The most interesting decoration for me is in this moment the Red Cross Medal 1st class. As far as I know only about 260 awarded. All decorated persons up to 1913 can be found in the K?niglich Preu?ische Ordensliste. From 1913 to 1918 there is a list in Orden und Ehrenzeichen Nr.26 (August 2003) compiled by Sauerwald from the data of the Deutscher Reichsanzeiger and K?niglich Preu?ischer Staatsanzeiger. As I know him, he did the work more than exact - but there is no information about Schultzen! The Rangliste 1914 shows him with the 2nd class. Schultzen is not the first person not to be found in the mentioned sources. As Bannicke/Tewes discussed in Orden und Ehrenzeichen 37/2005 this could be because of spontaneous awards of the Kaiser in the war where no Beamter was on his side for documentation.

Fine observation Mike! There is somthing odd in this pic and you got the point. There is a difference in his prussian attitude, the correct mounting of all the other decorations and the crooked Nordstern star. Besides this, the Nordstern star for the commander 1st class belongs to the neck cross of this order. I can?t recognize the second and the fourth neck cross, but both seemed not to be the Nordstern . On the other hand I found only pictures of Nordstern knight- and grandcrosses, may be the Komtur is of other style? But that is more than unusual ... Who can help?

the bar

Hello forumites, today I got this pic of a person in a general rank with the rare red cross medal 1. class. I have only seen one other foto of a person decorated with this (Generalstabsarzt der Armee von Schjerning). May be this is a high ranking medical officer too? I believe to recognize: neckorders -Preu?en, Kronenorden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern -? -W?rttemberg, Friedrichsorden 2. Klasse mit Schwertern -? -?sterreich, Ehrenzeichen vom Roten Kreuz, 1. Klasse mit Kriegsdekoration bar -Preu?en Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse -Preu?en, Roter-Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife -Preu?en, Roter-Adledr-Orden 4. Klasse mit der Krone -? (Preu?en, Rote Kreuz Medaille 2. Klasse?) -Preu?en, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz f?r Offiziere -Deutsches Reich, China-Denkm?nze -Preu?en, Zentenarmedaille -Sachsen, Albrechtsorden Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse -Oldenburg, Friedrich-August-Kreuz 2. Klasse -Sachsen-Meiningen, Ehrenzeichen f?r Verdienst im Kriege -Hanseatenkreuz -? (T?rkei, Liakatmedaille?) on pin -Schweden, Nordsternorden Kommandeur 1. Klasse -Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse -Oldenburg, Friedrich-August-Kreuz 1. Klasse -Bayern, Milit?rverdienstorden Offizierskreuz mit Schwertern -Preu?en, Rote Kreuz Medaille 1. Klasse Greetings, Komtur.

What a brave man to carry this burden

You see me helpless , but something must be wrong. I thought this bar can not be bad, because it belongs to this magnificent group. But then Sauerwald must be wrong ... ... I don?t know what I shall think ... Sorry, Komtur. Other by Sauerwald as modern copies described crosses:

COPY

Hallo Claudio, I judged these crosses up to now by the article of Sauerwald in Orden-Militaria-Magazin 92/2000 (S.53 ff): ORIGINAL

I can only agree with SPM. Absolutely marvelous I?m afraid that all ?lbergkreuze sold in the last years are copies. This is the first original I have seen on the market. With best regards, Komtur.

Sorry Rick, I can?t answer your question , but I?ll give you a personel message who possibly can. Greetings, Komtur.

Thanks to a member of the German Forum SDA another decoration of the bar is confirmed by a roll : Hanseatenkreuz L?beck an von Schoeler, Generalintendant des Feldheeres am 18.12.1915

Some time ago I payed a fortune for this postcard of him with original signature. Later I recognized he must have been more productive then Marylin Monroe Greetings, Komtur.

... it is a Johanniter ...

Thanks Rick and Daniel for the good news The same person, "the granddaughter" of Schoeler, gave the following to the auction (and nothing more): the above shown bar, a pour le m?rite, a star REO 2nd class with Oakleaves and swords, a box of a Princely Hohenzollern Honorary Commanders Cross with swords, a Bavarian Military Merit Order 2nd class with swords, a W?rttemberg Frederick Commader with star and swords, and two EK1 WW1 that fits to the information of Daniel , please tell me, what is your source ? with regards, Komtur.

it would be nice, if I could get a copy

Hi David, I?m afraid it?s not really helpful, but I got this foto with the bar. If the bar is from Roderich von Schoeler it could be dad August with young Roderich ?

Thanks Paul! Means "SMK" the "Sachsen-Meiningen Ehrenzeichen f?r Verdienst im Kriege" ? Where is that confirmed? The China medal NK not listed in his DOA entry is odd. But as he was 1899-1905 in the Kriegsministerium it is a possible award to him. Stammliste des 2. Garde-Regiments zu Fu?:

Generalleutnant Roderich Felix August von Schoeler (1862-1935) 02.08.14-30.04.16 Generalintendant des Feldheeres bei der OHL 01.05.16-03.10.16 Kommandeur der 20.Infanteriedivision 03.10.16-12.12.16 stv. preu?ischer Kriegsminister 12.12.16-11.05.17 Kommandeur der 11.Infanteriedivision 11.05.17-11.11.18 Kom. General des VIII.Armeekorps 30.6.1918 PLM Rangliste 1887 Seconde-Lieutnant v. Sch?ler, 4. Garde-Regiment zu Fu?, kommandiert zur Dienstleistung zur Gewehr- und Munitions-Fabrik in Spandau Rangliste 1904 Major v. Sch?ler, Versorgungs- und Justiz-Departement, 2. Versorgungsabteilung, RAO 4. Klasse, KO 3. Klasse Ordensalmanach 1908/9 Oberstleutnant, Kommandeur des Landwehrbezirks III, Berlin W., Eisenacherstr. 113, geboren Trier 3.8.1862, Mecklenburg Greifenorden Ehrenkreuz, Preu?en RAO 4. Klasse, KO 3. Klasse, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz, Zentenarmedaille. Rangliste 6.5.1913 Generalmajor, Kommandeur 1. Garde-Infanterie-Brigade, RAO 3. Klasse mit Schleife, KO 2. Klasse, Johanniterorden Ehrenritter, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz, F?rstlich Hohenzollernsches Ehrenkomturkreuz Ehrenrangliste 1914 (1926) 1914 Generalmajor, Direktor des Armee-Verwaltungs-Departements und stellvertretender Bevollm?chtigter zum Bundesrat des deutschen Reiches. Im Kriege zuletzt F?hrer des VIII. Armeekorps, Generalleutnant a.D. Geile Ordensverleihungen im Milit?r-Wochenblatt RAO 2. Klasse mit Schwertern und Eichenlaub am 10.2. 1916 an Generalmajor von Sch?ler Kommandeur Gruppenkommando 2 der Reichswehr 7.8.1919-30.9.1920 General der Infanterie Roderich von Schoeler

...

I got this bar a year ago. The auctioneer told me after the auction it belongs to Generalleutnant Roderich von Schoeler (he said it was given to him by the granddaughter of Schoeler). I?m always suspicious to such oral information, especially when there is no possibility to contact the informant. I?ve got a lot of details about his career and his decorations before 1914 (e.g. by ranklists, Stammliste des 2. Garde-Regiments zu Fu?, an article about Schoeler in "Die Ritter des Ordens pour le m?rite" by M?ller-Witten"). The single decorations of the bar are: Eisernes Kreuz, 2. Klasse 1914 (OEK 1909) Offiziersdienstauszeichnung f?r 25 Jahre (OEK 1970/1) Chinadenkm?nze f?r Nichtkombattanten Silber (OEK 3151) Zentenarmedaille (1965/1) Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse 1914 (OEK 1352) Braunschweig, Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse 1914 (OEK 634) Sachsen-Meiningen, Ehrenzeichen f?r Verdienst im Kriege (OEK 2717) Schaumburg-Lippe, Kreuz f?r treue Dienste 1914 (OEK 1256) Lippe-Detmold, Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1914 (OEK 1190) Bremen, Hanseatenkreuz (OEK 651) L?beck, Hanseatenkreuz (OEK 1265) T?rkei, goldene Liakatmedaille mit Schwertern 1.) Is there evidence by any roll of these decorations, that Schoeler got them? 2.) Wich other orders he got in WWI (except the pour le m?rite and the 2.class of the REO with swords and oak leaf documented in the "Milit?r-Wochenblatt" by Geile) 3.) Can someone show a better pic of Schoeler (especially with his bar ) Greetings, Komtur.

...