Tom King

Divisions at that time where designated by one letter. K division was East London area stretching from Bow out east. to Dagenham. KD was a later designation for Romford Police Station but that didn't come into the Met until the 1960s it was in Essex Police at that time. D division was West end Marylebone?Tottenham Court Road . It is unlikely he served in two areas which are geographically not that close.

Dave Thanks for your input, seems that this medal has stirred some enmities. There is lots wrong with Border Force and the Home Office on that we can agree. BF is certainly not the police, I speak from experience of both, but then again I have yet to meet anyone who thinks it is. The days of the lounge suited immigration service and customs officers operating in large gangs is long gone. Poor pay and working conditions make the job unappealing and retention of staff is challenging, the reality is the amount of officers reaching 20 years service will be very small, once the legacy immigration and customs officials have all retired. However my gripe is about recognition of service, for people working in any operational frontline role, whether that's simply through the grind of daily service, dealing with small boats in the English Channel, policing inner city estates or military being deployed overseas to conflict zones, it's something I am quite passionate about. Put a uniform on and enforce any law in most 1st world countries and you become an easy target of abuse from sections of the public and media alike, as you represent authority, which justified or not an increasing section of today's society does not like or respect. I don't think the UK has any risk of going down the path of some countries, getting recognition in the UK within the medals and honours system outside of the establishment and the cult of celebrity is like getting blood out of a stone. The US military as we know, has a different ethos to the British culture when it comes to medals. What makes the British system right and theirs wrong. Human nature to judge others based on our own cultural systems and beliefs, but I think their system is about recognising service in all its forms, which ours is reluctant to do. A chest full of medal ribbons for the military, so be it, why not, give people something to be proud of, a single medal for long service in a challenging role, not sure what the problem is.

I agree this isn’t anti social media that’s why I took a defensive position to your dripping sarcasm, but now it seems that everyone and his dog gets one! which clearly defines your opinion. Nothing further to add, good evening.

Not sure what makes you think this is obscure? Border Force and Immigration Enforcement are government uniformed law enforcement officers, yes by virtue of the UK system they are civil servants. As are Prison Officers and HM Coastguard. Most countries around the world recognise their customs and law enforcement officials and have done so for many years including Commonwealth countries such as Canada and Australia.Your attitude seems to reflect what's so wrong with the medals and honours system in the UK, you seem to think recognition of service is only deserving of the military or at a push the 'emergency services' ( more media driven nonsensical terminology). I am not even going down the celebrity, sports establishment honours. Why are they undeserving of a long service reward ? Long time overdue in my opinion, for the low paid, at times difficult and sometimes dangerous job they do. UK Border Force regularly deploy overseas and have deployed in most major conflict zones where there has been emergency evacuations of British Citizens. They have huge pressures 24/7 dealing with maritime issues in the English channel. Not an easy job dealing with desperate people in dangerous waters, that often ends in tragedy. Immigration Enforcement often work in difficult inner city areas doing a job that is challenging, whilst being vilified by sections of the media and politicians. It's not just sitting at an airport desk asking for a passport, which in itself is a job that at times leaves them subject to verbal and physical abuse. Your comments sadly show your ignorance or are intentionally disingenuous.

Probably taken near the time of his retirement and he may not have had his Coronation medal issued as yet so he wore a substitute for the photograph. That or he forgot it and borrowed one so he had three medals for the photo.

I am always suspicious of unusual names details been added to unnamed single medals. Hard to prove either way, but it is strange that those that are named are always linked to unusual units or persons as opposed to being named to individuals that would have been entitled....

You dee see them occasionally in auctions and antique shops but are getting harder to find. I have been looking for a while for a Met belt..

What was his divisional number on H ?

Interesting he kept the same warrant number. I wonder if pensioners who rejoined were called something other than War Reserve as you say RP is nor WR. I wonder what happened to that database does ESB historical records have access to it ?

The Metropolitan Police reserve were normal full time officers they were just employed on other duties not beat duty per se. On the other hand War Reserve Constables were recruited directly for police duties during wartime. As the title suggests they were volunteers who had the full powers of Constable sworn in under the Special Constable Act. The Met for example during WW2 used around 5000 of its Special Constables Full time, recruited some 18000 WRCs and re engaged nearly 3000 police pensioners.

I remember back in the 80s an officer not long out of his probation had been up to no good pretending he was on the flying squad and chatting up ladies working in banks. He got caught as one of the security managers at a certain bank was ex police, he was suspicious and asked to see his warrant card. He made a note of his name and reported it to the local police. Needless to say he was identified and called in to see his Divisional Chief Superintendent who gave him the option of resigning or facing a discipline investigation. He was gone the same day leaving half his stuff behind in the Section house. It was clearly an option to save embarrassment to both the job and the individual where it was clearly not a criminal matter but a discipline matter. Wouldn't happen today you can't resign even if you wanted to if facing gross misconduct discipline.

Thats because the London Docks were commercial docks. The docks that the Met were responsible for were all were Royal Navy dockyards. So they were responsible for the security and policing of naval dockyards, not commercial enterprise.

Interesting question and not one I can answer properly without further research. Initial training would have been very limited in 1897 and be based on military concepts i.e. marching etc, most training was done out on division. I am not sure when Peel House was established which served as a training facility for many years. I would also assume that on attestation Constables would have immediately be assigned a divisional number. So new recruits so to speak would probably be shown on divisional strengths. Again this is an assumption on my part so if anyone else can enlighten us I would be pleased to hear it.

To qualify for the 1897 medal they had to be serving Metropolitan Police (or City of London Police, which was a separate medal) officer on the day of the jubilee and not already in receipt of the 1887 medal in which case they received a bar marked 1897 for the 1887 medal. The 5 year service ruling is a modern concept only introduced For the QEII Golden Jubilee medal.

1st Division: Woolwich 2nd Division: Portsmouth 3rd Division: Devonport 4th Division: Chatham 5th Division: Pembroke 6th Division: Rosyth

Mervyn I could not agree more. What a joke,not worth the effort.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24067335 Lets hope.....

Interesting photo. I cannot make out the divisional letter on the collars or helmets are they all the same ? I go with Mervyn the flag in the background suggests the 1911 Coronation, and the medal may be a local corporation coronation medal?

The Towers at Hendon were built to accommodate recruits. There is no longer any recruit training at Hendon thus the Towers are now redundant. Bow Street Police Station and the Court were not demolished, they are now vacant awaiting a final decision on how they are going to be developed into flats and housing. there is some talk of the Met Museum collection being located there in part of the old police station but this is a long running debate which has still to be finalised. The current collection has some exhibits on display at Empress State Building in West Brompton this is only a fraction of what can be shown as the premises is small.

I would be interested to hear what he has to say. My thoughts are that as the Justice of the Peace issue is now long assigned to history by the 1986 Public Order Act , The Commissioner DC and ACs will still be serving police officers with the powers of constable. They do have warrant cards and I believe the Silver tokens are now given on retirement and not carried any longer as a badge of office and identification.

Dave The MPA no longer exists it is now MOPAC. The selection of the Commissioners post I can assure you is a joint decision between the Mayor and the Home Secretary it is a matter of semantics who recommends the post to the queen. Also legislation has now been passed that opens the Commissioners post to foreign nationals. I am not going to die in a ditch over this the reality is the Commissioner of the Metropolis is the most sought after senior police position in England and Wales. As I previously said each chief constable has autonomy in their own force area the Met Commissioner has no authority over them per se. But i simply do not see how you can argue the Met Commissioners post is on par with all other Chief Constables the Met has national responsibilities outside policing just the London area. Also I will think you will find both the current Commissioner and deputy Commissioner have warrant cards and I assume that as they are career police officers the powers of Constable.

I beg to differ. I think Mervyn is spot on with regards the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and Deputy Commissioner being the Senior Police Officers in England and Wales. But I will defer the HMIC top job considering the person now in post. You just have to look at the rank insignia to see the difference. Chief Constables in fact wear the same rank as Assistant Commissioners in the Met. I accept a Chief Constable has autonomy in his/her policing area but how can you assess that the Commissioner with National Policing responsibilities including Counter Terrorism and a staff of over 50,000 is on par with a Chief Constable who may have a total of 1500 staff in their force area? The Commissioner never even used to be a member of ACPO as he is appointed by the Home Secretary.

The towers at Hendon Police College are no longer functional and have been empty verging on derelict for several years. There were three towers which functioned as accommodation blocks for the college. This area of the estate is in the process of being sold for redevelopment which I believe has caused some problems in itself as the land was original MOD part of RAF Hendon which was given to the police so there have been issues as to ownership.

No photos in the police archives for individuals although many had private photos taken. George joined 06/04/85 resigned 26/03/88 entitled to the 1887 Jubilee medal a PC on N Division. He resigned of his own accord. I see that there is also a Charles Enticknap with such an unusual name he must be related he served 1887 to 1913

Guv, Guv'nor and Boss seem to be the main terminology in use in the Met today for Inspectors and above. Sir and Ma'am are also still used as the formal address. As for veteran, it is used/misused a lot more in the US than in the UK. However the term is not just related to length of service. For instance soldiers who have survived a particular campaign or war no matter how long they fought could be considered veterans of that campaign or war, especially wars or battles where life expectancy was limited.