Eric Schena

...and just to keep this stuff together on one thread... Order of Sukhebataar #1404 22 Oct 1980 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-ORDER-BOOKLE...1QQcmdZViewItem Medal for Military Merit #2127 20 August 1951 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1951YEAR-ORD...1QQcmdZViewItem Medal for Military Merit unnumbered 31 March 1987 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1987-YEAR-OR...1QQcmdZViewItem Medal for Labor Honor unnumbered February 1977 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1977-YEAR-OR...1QQcmdZViewItem Order of the Polar Star #4852 6 November 1956 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1956-YEAR-OR...1QQcmdZViewItem Order of the Labor Red Banner #4688 no date specified http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-ORDER-BOOKLE...1QQcmdZViewItem Order of Maternal Glory 2nd Class #195713 5 October 2000 (if I read the date right) http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-ORDER-OF-MAT...1QQcmdZViewItem

Welcome Jan! Hope you didn't mind me posting that data earlier. Thank you so much for your additions - the pool of knowledge is fuller because of it Cheers, Eric

Sure thing, Rick Here's what I could dig up on a quick search: Order of Sukhebataar #1404 22 Oct 1980 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-ORDER-BOOKLE...1QQcmdZViewItem Medal for Military Merit #2127 20 August 1951 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1951YEAR-ORD...1QQcmdZViewItem Medal for Military Merit unnumbered 31 March 1987 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1987-YEAR-OR...1QQcmdZViewItem Medal for Labor Honor unnumbered February 1977 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1977-YEAR-OR...1QQcmdZViewItem Order of the Polar Star #4852 6 November 1956 http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-1956-YEAR-OR...1QQcmdZViewItem Order of the Labor Red Banner #4688 no date specified http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-ORDER-BOOKLE...1QQcmdZViewItem Order of Maternal Glory 2nd Class #195713 5 October 2000 (if I read the date right) http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-ORDER-OF-MAT...1QQcmdZViewItem

Actually, I've started to see a quite a few Mongolian orders books on eBay the past couple of weeks - from the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Sometimes the dealer indicates the award and it's serial number and sometimes not. The bad thing is that the books have been separated from their decorations so there's no 100% way of determining which variety of decoration to which the book belongs. This is especially troubling for the decorations from the 50's and 60's when there were quite a few transition pieces. Since I've been hardcore in Albanian material lately, I've not been really tracking these lately, but thought it's worth noting in any case... Cheers, Eric

Hi all; I've seen pics of most DPRK awards, but I have never seen one of their top order, the Order of Kim Il Sung (which I *think* are the two top stars just below the Hero of the DPRK awards on the general nearest to the viewer in the photo with 3 generals). Anyone have any good shots of that order? Cheers, Eric

Hi all: I hope you don't mind me chiming in here (Imperial's not my usual haunt), but I figure this is a debate that transcends Imperial. My basic collecting philosophy has always been "Collect what you like and pay what you feel is right." Don't want to spend $100 for an EK2 - then don't. I personally wouldn't even so much as touch one at that price. I have a very, very small collection of Imperial (I posted some albeit misidentified bandschnalle earlier - the penalty for posting after along day at the salt mines), all of which I like and every piece I paid exactly what I wanted to pay for it. I'd love to add a 1939 EK1 to my collection, but there's no way I'm paying $300 for one, so I don't. To be honest, at this stage, I don't see myself getting another piece of Imperial and I know I won't be buying any TR. Now, for some things, I'll go after them hook, line and sinker without regard for resale value: for instance, nice communist Albanian medals. I can count on one hand the number of serious collectors of communist Albanian decorations there are. Then again, with those, I am as much collecting information as I am the actual artifact themselves. In other words, not much of a resale market there. Now, to be honest, sometimes I sell stuff to add more focus to what my main interests are and frankly, the key for me is selling to people who will appreciate the item for what it is, rather than as something they can flip. In all but a few cases, I lost money rather than made it - and I will even give stuff away to people whom I know will appreciate the item. It's a hobby - it should be fun for me and for others. Does it bother me to have maybe lost cash when I sold the stuff? Nope - because I used that money to help get other items that are a current focus, plus the other party is happy they got a decent deal and in many cases, I've made good friends in the process, so what's there to be unhappy about? Medals are actually more of a side line thing for me, though that may be debatable considering how into obscure Albanian decorations I have been getting. My primary hobby has been paper money, tokens, and fiscal ephemera from Virginia (mostly the Shenandoah Valley/I-81 corridor). Some of this stuff is mainstream, like national bank notes where the interest is multifaceted and is long established, but some of it is downright rarified, such as antebellum bank letters. And a substantial majority of this stuff is downright rare in a field where "common" material is if there are more than 100 known of any particular item. I've paid what I wanted to pay to get items I knew would not be seen in the open market for decades. For instance, I recently got a national from a Fauquier Co. bank that was at the upper end of my comfort zone that has a grand total of around 7 appearances in the open market in 60 years but I knew I would likely not see another for years, so I gladly paid the price for it. That, and I happen to be writing a book about the subject matter Some would call me insane for some of the prices I've paid for diabolically rare aluminum tokens from places no more than wide spots in the road in Rockingham, Shenandoah or Augusta Co. - they're plain jane and made out of aluminum for goodness sakes I like them, I research them, and I'm even writing about them Sorry for the rambling musings... Cheers, Eric

... except I have the original document dated 8 March 1902. I'm not sure how rare this document is, but I can't recall seeing another one.. I hope you liked these!

Here's my Prussian LW DA - nothing too special...

Here's my personal favorite - it's a Prussian Fire Service 25 year in the case of issue that is even named. The bar itself is marked QUELLHORST. The best part is that I paid less for this than I would taking my wife out for a steak dinner

Hi all: The one foray I really made into Imperial German is with these decorations - I love them and it's great to see all these fantastic examples. Here are a few of mine. They are nothing too special, but they are neat nonetheless... Here's my Baden LW and a Prussian bar. The Prussian one is marked H. ZEHN on the reverse...

Hi all: Reading the threads on Mongolian orders and the paucity of any kind of numerical range information on them, I thought I'd post this. On another forum, someone (vatjan, if anyone here is familiar with that thread) was keeping track of SN ranges for the different varieties of orders. Using his fantastic info, I've been trying to keep a running total myself in a spreadsheet. Since I think my methodology may be sufficiently different enough from vatjan's, as well as some of the numbers I have collected differ enough, and all the info was captured from data in the public domain, I thought I'd post this here to help in any ongoing number logging efforts. If anyone has any objection to this post, let me know and I'll remove it - last thing I want to be is an information thief. A couple of things: 1. For the most part, I did not include the current orders. 2. My copy of Battushig is still in transit (really HUGE thank you to Christian L. for snagging me a copy ), so some of my variety identifications may be off a bit. 3. I also did not take into account screwplate types. I hope this is vaguely useful. Corrections/comments/complaints, send them my way Hero of MPR / Medal "Gold Star" of Hero of MPR Type 1 (Resembles Order of Sukhe Bator but w/Uighur inscription and different rays) No SN data Type 2 (Ribboned screwback suspension, hand engraved SN) No SN data Medal "Gold Soyembo" of Hero of Labor of MPR Type 1 (two piece riveted construction) Low = 13 High = 242 Type 2 (one piece construction) Low = 420 High = ? Medal "Gold Star" of Honorary Freeman of MPR No SN data Order of Sukhe Bator Type 1 (Screwback) Low = 185 High = 788 Type 2 (pinback) Low = 839 High = 1937 Order of Military Valor 1st award Type 1 (Small star, 3 hallmarks) Unnumbered Type 2.1 (Large red star, tiny МОНДВОР mintmark, rivets almost to edge) Low = 188 High = ? Type 2.2 (Large red star, larger МОНДВОР mintmark, rivets towards center) Low = 613 High = ? 2nd award No SN data Order of Red Banner of Military Valor 1st award Type 1.1 (МОНДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) Low = 110 High = ? Type 1.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) Low = 663 High = 2401 Type 1.3 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN directly below screwpost) Low = 1240 High = 2581 2nd award No SN data 3rd award No SN data 4th award (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark placement unknown; 4 rivets) Low = 143 High = 150 Order of Combat Red Banner 1st award Type 1 (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) Low = 115 High = 2640 Type 2.1 (Pinback 3 rivets; SN at 12 o'clock) Low = 3160 High = 4449 Type 2.2 (Pinback 2 rivets; SN at 5 o'clock) Low = 4685 High = 5380 2nd award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) Low = 12 High = 398 3rd award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) No SN data 4th award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) No SN data Order of Civil Valor Type 1 (Small star, 3 hallmarks) Unnumbered Type 2 (Large red star, МОНДВОР mintmark) Low = 126 High = 165 Order of Labor Glory / Order of the Red Banner of Industrialization Type 1.1 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN at 12 o'clock) Low = 398 High = 2325 Type 1.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN directly below screwpost) Low = 1837 High = 2315 Order of Labor Red Banner Type 1 (Screwback) Low = 106 High = 3452 Type 2 (Pinback) Low = 4167 High = 5975 Order of Military Merit Type 1.1 (Screwback; flat reverse; 5 rivets) Low = 225 High = 838 Type 1.2 (Screwback; circular indentation at center on reverse; 2 rivets) Low = 1038 High = 5873 Type 2 (Pinback) Low = 6177 High = 8722 Order of the Polar Star Type 1 (Screwback; МОНДВОР mintmark; long oval design) Low = 751 High = 792 Type 2.1 (Screwback; МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; Uighur; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) Low = 353 High = 2831 Type 2.2 (Screwback; МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; Uighur; SN directly below screwpost) Low = 1861 High = ? Type 3.1 (Screwback; Cyrillic; slightly concave reverse; SN at 7 o'clock) Low = 656 High = 5296 Type 3.2 (Screwback; Cyrillic; flat reverse; SN directly below screwpost) Low = 5094 High = 9941 Type 3.3 (Screwback; Cyrillic; flat reverse; SN at 6 o'clock) Low = 10544 High = 14828 Type 4 (Pinback) Low = 15074 High = 29990 Medal for Military Merit Type 1.1 (Ribboned screwback suspension; SN with "No." prefix) Low = 484 High = 1753 Type 1.2 (Ribboned screwback suspension; SN without prefix) Low = 2146 High = 9263 Type 2.1 (Ribboned pinback suspension; SN hand engraved) Low = 3151 High = ? Type 2.2 (Ribboned pinback suspension; SN rotating tool engraved) Low = 10020 High = 16999 Type 3.1 (Enameled pinback suspension; SN rotating tool engraved) Low = 18775 High = 23354 Type 3.2 (Enameled pinback suspension; no SN) Unnumbered Honorary Labor Medal Type 1.1 (Ribboned screwback suspension; Uighur; SN with "No." prefix) Low = 550 High = ? Type 1.2 (Ribboned screwback suspension; Uighur; SN without prefix) Low = 2839 High = 16418 Type 2.1 (Ribboned pinback suspension; Cyrillic; SN stamped) Low = 17723 High = 20723 Type 2.2 (Ribboned pinback suspension; Cyrillic; SN rotating tool engraved) Low = 22527 High = 35296 Type 3 (Enameled pinback suspension; SN rotating tool engraved) Low = 1401 High = 2052 Type 4 (Enameled pinback suspension; SN rotating tool engraved; aluminum) Low = 737 High = 4310 Medal for Selflessness/Medal for Distinction in Prodtecting Public Order Type 1.1 (Painted 4 red and 4 blue bands; laurel leaves uncolored; SN stamped) Low = 10 High = 21 Type 1.2 (Enameled 4 red and 4 blue bands; laurel leaves uncolored; SN stamped) Low = 280 High = 381 Type 1.3 (Enameled 4 red and 4 blue bands; green enameled laurel leaves) Low = ? High = ? Type 2.1 (Two red bands and one blue band; SN rotating tool engraved) Low = 1027 High = ? Type 2.2 (Two red bands and one blue band; no SN ) unnumbered Medal for the Victory over Japan Type 1 (Thick type) Low = 111 High = 40734 Type 2 (Thin) Low = 50993 High = 51592 Medal for the 25th Anniversary MPR Type 1 (SN stamped) Low = 8360 High = 20008 Type 2 (No SN) unnumbered

Hi all: I hope you don't mind, Ed, but I'd like to post my two examples of exotica... These are both Afghan decorations from the pre Republic period and have been rather elusive in information. The one on the left is the fourth class of what has been variously described as the Order of the Afghan Throne or the Order of the Star. I'm not sure which is correct, though I am leaning towards Order of the Star. The one on the right is a complete mystery. It's the second class of some sort of order, but I have never seen another one like it nor do I have any clue as to what it was called. I can say that the badge is silver (marked 925 on the reverse), in three pieces and the seal is gold. One thing that's interesting is that I've seen that wreath design on a grand cross set of the Order of the Star (here's one on a commecial site: http://www.najafcoins.com/Images/af4.jpg). Other than that, it's a mystery.

Great stuff, Gerd Yep...from what I can tell, a typical partisan/WW II vet would have received the Medal For Bravery, Medal for the Liberation of the Country, and if they were a partisan during the Italian occupation the Medal "Remembrance 1942-1943". They may also have had an Order of the Red Star and if they were an officer, a Skanderbeg 3rd class. I do have a pic of some Albanian officers in Odessan where they are wearing the Medal of Socialist Work, as well as the ones cited above. The Order of labor you have is a later Albanian made piece, probably from the 1970's. Pr?wema also made that order in the 50's and 60's. I actually like the design of the Order of Labor, plus - as you can attest - they are pretty hefty in feel. Cheers, Eric

And lastly is the Medal for the 5th Anniversary of the RPR, created in 1952. It's made of a matte nickel silver and is in two pieces. This is the medal that got me into non USSR Eastern Bloc medals - it's very well made, the enameling on the seal is attractively done and it wasn't horribly expensive. I hope I've not bored y'all with these - I'll leave the real "geeking out" for the Albanian decorations

Here's the Order of 23 August, third class (gilt brass) from the RPR period. The order was established in 1959 and like the Order of the Star it came in 5 classes, the 1st and 2nd classes are breast stars and the 3rd, 4th and 5th classes are like this one, but they are in gold, silver, and bronze, respectively. It's made in 3 pieces and the little state seal is very well done with all sorts of colors of enamels.

Here's the Order of the Star after it was completely redesigned in 1964. On the left is the 4th class and on the right is the 5th class and are made of real silver. The 1st through 3rd classes share the same basic design but with additions such as gilding and brilliants. These two are from the RPR period between 1964 and 1965.

Rick: I've only really seen the RPR period medals (that is, pre Ceaucescu/1965), but the materials used I have noticed have been real silver, nickel silver, brass, and bronze. The later ones seem to be much more gaudy so they may have used "staybright" alloys and the like. If I may also post some from my meagre collection of RPR decorations, this is the Order of the Star - first pattern, which was made between 1948 and 1964. It came in 5 classes, the first two classes were breast stars (gold and silver), the lower three on ribbons like this one (in gold, silver and bronze).

If I may posit a theory as to the odd sequence of numbers for those 3 Polar Stars in Ed's really great group... As y'all know, there are 4 basic types of Polar Stars, the original 1936 design, the 1939 design with Uighur, the 1941 design with Cyrillic, and the 1970 modified coat of arms pinback. From what I can tell, with each of the basic varieties, the numbers started over from 1. So, what may be the case here is that the recipient received two type 2 Polar Stars, then got a Type 3 in 1955. However, without the actual decorations in hand, this is pure theory. I do have a list of high and low observed numbers for some of these orders by variety, however, they are from another forum where someone was compiling a log of them, so I am very reticent to post them here willy nilly since this is not my research. Cheers, Eric

Re: The Battushig book Has the supply of them already dried up or are there still some out there ? If so, where can I pick one up? I checked CollectRussia but they appear to have been sold out. I have a small collection of Mongolian orders and would love to get this book. Here's one of my faves - this is a second type Polar Star with the Uighur inscription. This was issued between 1939 and 1941 and has the MOHETHЫЙ ДВOP mintmark up at the top on the reverse. This is probably about as early as I am going to be able to get with these since the real early ones are now quite expensive. Cheers, Eric

Hi Gerd: I sure do remember that Skanderbeg - you practically stole it you got it so cheap Funny you should mention compiling my research...I have accumulated 60 some odd pages worth so far about these orders (including a little on the Wilhelm of Wied and Zog era pieces) and I hope to polish it up and do something with it and "share the wealth". Sadly, I am missing some key info, so it's not really in any shape at present. I'll try to post excerpts of what I have so far here so more folks will have a better appreciation for these items. The Hoxha era stuff cannot hold a candle as far as workmanship is concerned to say Soviet or Mongolian orders, but they do have a certain fascination behind them. I would absolutely love to see what you have in your collection Cheers, Eric

Hi Ed: Great Order of Lenin! She reminds me of my 3th grade teacher who scared the daylights out of me. I know what you mean about research - I have a Lenin with the orders book from 1974 and would love to know for what it was awarded. Maybe some day... Cheers, Eric

Thanks for the comments! The Skanderbeg Order has always been a personal favorite of mine. If you want to see a 1950's period 3rd class ribbon, check out: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2445 Finding info on communist Albanian decorations is actually harder than finding the decorations. Apparently there is a book in Albanian written in the 1980's about them but that book is so hard to find that it is almost legendary/mythic (the "Nessie"/"Champ" of medal books). That is where I got the numbers awarded from - via a friend who saw the book. I am trying to get even so much as a photocopy so I can complete some of my research on these elusive decorations.

And in case you were wondering, here are the two types of PR?WEMA screwplates. The one on the left is the larger (and older) style, the one on the right the smaller newer style.

Third Class: Similar to the 2nd class, however, the entire badge is silver and not enameled. 472 are believed to have been awarded by the mid 1980?s. a. Screw back made by IKOM (not observed but presumed to exist) b. Screw back made by PR?WEMA: i. Large marked screw plate ii. Small marked screw plate c. Horizontal pin back with dished central section on reverse d. Horizontal pin back with completely flat reverse (not observed but presumed to exist) This is the small screwplate PR?WEMA version. I also have a horizontal pinback w/dished reverse variety that looks almost exactly like this one, leading me to believe that they were both made by PR?WEMA.

Second Class: Similar to the 1st class, however, the badge is silver with a gilt wreath. 229 are believed to have been awarded by the mid 1980?s. a. Screw back made by IKOM (not observed but presumed to exist) b. Screw back made by PR?WEMA: i. Large marked screw plate ii. Small marked screw plate c. Horizontal pin back with dished central section on reverse d. Horizontal pin back with completely flat reverse This is the horizontal pinback dished reverse type...