Chip

In Kraus this is described as a ?berjacke. It was introduced in the summer of 1916 and was fashioned from wool moleskin (Ledertuch). He says the shoulder straps were leather, but every photo I have seen of them has M15 cloth enlisted boards. The description does not mention which ranks wore them, but I assume both officer and NCOs had access to them. Chip

Thomas, I agree that the shoulder strap is the wrong pattern and the collar Litzen are the old style, so something is going on here. Do the others in the photo have similar uniform abnormalities? Try as I might, I can't make out anything distinct on that shoulder strap. An interesting photo, to be sure. Chip

Joe, I have two sources. First, are the pictures of the Probe pieces from the collection of the Bavarian Army Museum, Ingolstadt. Secondly, the information is contained in Kraus. Chip

ireichit, Your cap is from WWII and this is the imperial section. Chip

Les, I have the carrying can too. The only thing missing on the whole rig is the neck strap that attaches to the hose. Christophe, Photos of this pattern in wear are known, but they are not common. Here is a driver who is wearing one. Chip

When you say staff are you referring to volunteers or military personnel? Both wore uniforms. By side cap, do you mean Feldm?tze? Chip

Thomas, Yes, these are private purchase pieces. Most boards you will see with this rank are. The issued examples are just issue enlisted straps with the braid added, as you would expect. I would agree that one would normally expect to see gray on the back side, especially when you consider that the officer's "MW" insignia was not authorized until October of 1916. But, there are many cases where private purchase items do not follow the norms. Besides, an 1880's greatcoat strap would be nothing like this. First, the overcoat straps were much wider (officially 6.5cm), while this one is in the range of the M15's (4.5cm). Secondly, they were blue/black and very much darker than this medium blue. Thirdly, I am fairly certain that this rank did not even exist in the 1880's. Regardless, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I still would be very happy to have this pair. Chip

Claudio, In looking over your excellent photos again, I noticed that the Schirmm?tze in post #12 appears to have a special Edelweiss with a crown on the gold center. There is another example at the museum of the Gebirgstruppen at Sonthofen. This pattern may have been worn by Bavarian troops as well, but up until now, I have only seen it on W?rttemberg caps. Here is my example. Chip

I am just as mystified as the rest of you. I think Joe is close to the truth. Some sort of auto club. In one of the close-ups I could swear I see a front view of a car in that cap wreath. Chip

Christophe, As Les says, the Draeger (Selbstretter) in the first photo is a special apparatus used for several purposes. It was not a general purpose device and there were training courses for those who would use them. I would not think that it would have been used as an assault mask, as it was too cumbersome and was meant too deliver oxygen to the wearer. It could be used to treat gas victims. This is one such specialty mask, also made by Draeger and used by drivers and others with military occupations that required better sight. It is called the "A.m.E.-Ger?t". It came with a separate pair of goggles that was carried in a leather waist pouch.

I am intrigued by the short flying coat too. I have several photos of them being worn and they appear to have only been issued to flight personnel. The prop collar patch is regulation on this coat. The odd thing is that huge chevron on the sleeve. It's larger than a navy mate's equivalent. Wonder what it is for. Chip

Christophe, There are other possibilities like non-regimental officers, retired officers, etc. The underlay color on this one looks more scarlet to me than Karmasinrot, but that could just be the scan or the color values on my computer. I agree with you that is looks more to be something from before the war, but one cannot be certain of that without knowing what branch it is supposed to be. Regardless, it's a nice piece. Chip

Christophe, I often wonder about thes numberless boards. Who wore them and why. Garde and staff are possibilities to be sure, but one never really knows for sure. Chip

Thomas, Thanks for showing the photo of the Saxon Stosstrupp patch. I have seen only a few other photos of it. This mothed insignia I have shown belongs to a collector back East and came from Ebay a few years ago in a lot with some Saxon medals and some other common insignia. Chip

Hardy, The soldier was from the assault section of IR.368. Chip

That backwards "S" also looks like a number "2". The Saxons had a sleeve insignia that looked somewhat similar, a red "S" on the gray background, as in this picture. I have seen a couple of photos of it being worn. Chip

The postition of the TK patch for the GRPR during the war was specified. On the M07 enlisted tunic, the patch was to be worn just above the Swedish cuff. On the M15 Bluse and the vereinfachte M07 tunic, the patch was supposed to be worn on the barrel cuff. I was not aware of some special method of wear for the Rohr flamethrower troops. What are the details on this? Chip

Hardy, I got it in Germany many years ago. Near the same time I got a series of photos of an outdoors awards ceremony with the Crown Prince. One of the awardees is wearing an assault backpack and has a very similar metal insignia on his sleeve. The only difference is that the one in the photo has a gear teeth type design to the outer ring. Chip

As Hardy indicates, it's an unofficial specialist patch. There were all sorts of them, including those for the Minenwerfer specialists. Here is a metal one, which was sewn on the sleeve. Crossed grenades in a ring.

Chris, I have never seen any variations, except that some had the words you mention in red and on some they are the same gray as the rest of the drum. I've got a pair in a wooded carrying case. Chip

Rick's right about the silver lace. Unless this board was cut off of the shoulder, it would be impossible for the lower pip to be in that position, since this appears to be a sew-in board. (How's that for a run-on sentence?!). Regarding the extra holes in the back, it might be useful to know that none of the regiments that had this cypher were authorized to wear the silver lace (for Prussian/Baden infantry, only the 1st Garde Rgt.zu Fu? and the Leib Gren.Rgt. Nr.109 had it). Chip

Great thread! Here's my contribution. Chip

I'd take them in a minute! These are custom purchase straps and thus they are not going to conform exactly to sizes and construction of the issue pieces. I grant you that the blue backing is odd and I could not overlook it on an issue piece, but these are not issue boards. The deivices are similar to known examples. If someone would like to pass them along, I would be happy to relieve you of them. Chip

OMG! Love that lance pennant! :speechless1:

And Limburg am Lahn used to have a well-known militaria dealer, Karlheinz M?ller. I visited his shop back in the 1970s. Wish I had bought more. Ahhhh, hindsight. Chip