Chip

Hardy, Would it be possible to get an enlagement of the entire photo? Not as big as your outtakes, but something bigger than the small initial inset. I wanted to get the flavor of the enitire compostion that the photographer made. I have not seen this specific type of leggings, but many things were done. I am sure that you have seen waders. Our national WWI museum, here in Kansas City, has a pair of German leather boots on display that have the leather coming up to just below the knee and then waterproof canvas from there up to the crotch. You can sure see why so many troops took Fu?schoner into the field. Without them, that clay would have your boots off in no time. Chip

White, red, yellow, blue, green.

Chris, Whether enlisted or officer, a helmet from this regiment will be difficult to find and afford! These regimental pieces bring quite a premium over those of the other "regular" regiments. Chip

Yes, they are excellent photos. Notice that the close-up shows a Brandenburg cuff rather than the more typical German (Saxon) cuff. Chip

Chris, The belt will depend on whether you intend to depict the uniform as it would have appeared in the field or as a walking out dress. The officer's Feldkoppel did not come out until September of 1915, so he should have worn either a brocade belt with bright buckle (ordered covered with gray cloth in August of 1914) or a plain leather roller buckle belt. You can forget the Vizefeldwebel get up, unless you intend to add the collar and cuff NCO Tresse. Sounds like you answer to your own questions is the best path to take. Chip

Chris, Whoever told you that was wrong. The three Mantelriemen had a "double strap", one to go around the Mantel/Decke/Zeltbahn roll and the other to attach the roll to the Tornister. The Kochgeschirrriemen were simple straps with a roller buckle. Two were needed to attach the Kochgeschirr to the Tornister. Chip

Chris, Yes, definitely not white. Could be yellow too. The trouble is that these boards only would have existed with this color piping from December 1914 until September 1915 (about ten months). Depending on the turnover of officers during that time frame, there very well could be just a handful of these boards (with this color underlay) that ever existed! Chip

Chris, Are you talking about the Kochgeschirrriemen for the Tornister? Chip

Chris, During the period before 21.9.1915, officer's field shoulder boards had either bright or a matt metallic finish. The later sprung up early in the war as a first response for the need to tone down the distinguishing mark of an officer. After the new regulations came out in September, the field pattern boards had subdued gray non-metallic cords with (for the most part) double Faden (darts) in the state colors. So Prussian boards had black/white, Bavaria had blue/white, Saxony had green/white, etc. The dress boards remained with bright metallic cords and the earlier single (for the most part) color darts. The color of the underlay for the reserve regiments before 21.9.1915 was varied and is only known for the regiments up to number 248. Unfortunately, I do not have an example of an infantry officer's board from this period. All of mine are the new pattern. I tend to concentrate on the enlisted stuff and my officer's selection is pretty much limited to subdued field boards. The 258th I.R. was formed in December of 1914. Chip

Chris, I believe that one of the requirements of a EYF was that they had to purchase their own uniforms. I do think, however, that if they wanted, they could purchase something from the regimental Kammer for field wear. I have seen issue tunics with the stamp "Eigentums", indicating to me that they were marked so that there was no question that they had been purchased and were no longer government property. During the war many officers wore issue tunics. I have seen several over the years and have one myself. So, to answer your question, I think either would be legitimate, but it would likely depend on whether it was meant for every day or dress use. Chip

Chris, First, congratulations. What a coup! You know, the regiment was granted the royal cypher of King Konstantin of Greece on Sept.19, 1913, so these Dunkelblau tunics predate that or they are from the reserve regiment. Your feldgrau Waffenrock would have then taken removable boards with the cypher "K" and crown. I would have Eric recheck with the family, as these will be extremely difficult to find on the loose. The other news is that the Pickelhaube had a Wappen specific to this regiment since 1899 with the Auszeichnungsb?nder "La Belle Alliance", "Mesa De Ibor" and "Medellin". You will need to own a bank to purchase such an officer's helmet, if you can find one! Chip

dond, Wonderful set. Thanks for showing it. The little document is really nice. Chip

Supposedly there was a rhyme and reason to the ribbons on these medals, but in actuality, it seems like there is little consistency. I recently saw a bar mounted J?ger REK that had the "correct" green ribbon, but the medal was the "Treu dem Regiment" rather than the "Treu dem Bataillon". This example shown by Stogie just adds more credence to the notion that the many types of ribbons were just as bewildering to the original medal bar makers as they are to us. Chip

A nice document set. And although the MW companies were smaller, the artifacts from the battalions seem to be harder to find. As an illustration, I have nineteen MW shoulder boards of which only three are from battalion size units. All the rest are from companies. There are others that are also intrigued by the relative scarcity of battalion level shoulder straps. Take a look at the price this single strap brought just last week. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:B:ONA:US:1123. Your eyes are not deceiving you! That is $256.00 for a single example! Chip

Mike, Yes. Chip

May I suggest to get copies of the EK documents made so you can keep them with the other items. Very nice feldgrau Waffenrock. It appears that this issue piece had the collar altered to make it a bit more impressive. This was commonly done, as it was cheaper than getting a whole custom tunic made, but still gave the impression of a tailored piece. I have an issue Bavarian Waffenrock with the same type of period collar "improvement". Chip

Hardy, Nice distinctive tunic. Wish I had one! That's a pretty jaunty cap too!. Thanks for showing it. Chip

Mike, The double Litzen on overcoat Kragenpatten was not affected by the additon of NCO Borte, even if it was the two strips of Borte that a Feldwebel wore. Here is an example of a double Litzen overcoat tab with two strips of NCO Borte (Hessian Leib Garde Inf.Rgt.Nr.115).

Mike, I am not sure if the ranks in the LG mirrored those of the army, but the NCO Borte on the overcoat Kragenpatten could represent any of the ranks of Unteroffizier, Sergeant, F?hnrich, Vizefeldwebel or Offizierstellvertreter. All of these ranks work Tresse on the tunic collar. Chip

This is the famous aviator, ace and PlM winner, Ernst Udet. "Du doch nicht". Chip

Thomas: You may be on to something here, but the single Garde Litze would mean this photo is pre-1889? Too bad we can't see the shoulder boards. Mike: If I am not mistaken, in the case of a regiment with double Litzen, when worn with NCO collar lace, the Litzen were normally reduced from two to one. I don't think this held true for the Kragenpatten on overcoats, so whatever unit this is, it used only one Litze.

I suppose this could be cavalry Litewka, but regardless of what it is, the color of the Kragenpatten should match the underlay of the shoulder boards. That's what I get from my translation. In Kraus's book, about the collection of the Bavarian Army Museum, there is an artillery officer's Kleiner Rock with silver colored buttons. They should be gilt. Kraus notes this, but offers no explanations. The point being that officers just did what they wanted in many respects.

Charles, I mentioned earlier that there could be other possibilities, but I don't have a chart or list to use to find out.

dante, Thanks for the additional photo. This is an officer's Litewka. The horizontal hip pockets are another indication of this. Kleiner R?cke had hip pockets that were set on a slant. In looking at other photos of Litewka, I find that many were updated to the new shoulder boards after 1915. Though these upgrades tended to be the bright topped boards introduced for the 1915 Friedensrock, the Bavarian Army Museum has a Hussar Litewka that has subdued Feldachselst?cke (as yours does). I think your piece just has the wrong shoulder boards. They appear to be well sew in, so changing them, even if you found the correct boards, might be quite an undertaking. On the Litewka, the Kragenpatten were supposed to be the same color as the underlay of the shoulder boards. Chip

dante, A Kleiner Rock should be feldgrau with an Abzeichentuch collar. This tunic looks to be a lighter gray and the collar seems to be the same color. Perhaps this is a Litewka. Officer's could get away with a lot of things, but I'm not so sure about M15 Feldachselst?cke on a Litewka, however. I am assuming that the underlay for the officer's boards is white? If so, then yes, they are probably wrong. The Train troops were not the only ones to wear the light blue Kragenpatten, but it is the most likely identification. Train tunics should have tombak buttons. These appear to be silver, so some more information would be helpful.