NavyFCO

My opinion is that it's worth about what you paid for it. I've sold several of these over the years (almost all to HSU generals though) and I've never gotten more than $100 for one. I bought one last year for a group that I owned (I had his other documents) and I paid $65 for it. Hope that helps. Dave

Thanks Doc Actually, I don't really consider it a reference book. I consider it more of a memorial to the brave men whose deeds are memorialized in the pages of the book. It is their deeds that wrote the book - I simply compiled them in English for we westerners to read. Interestingly enough, it might just be that I have owned all of the groups in the book, but reading through it this evening I am not certain that photos would really add all that much to it. It's kind of hard to explain, but I think folks will see what I mean once they get copies and and read through it. We'll see what the consensus is after the first 10 or 20 books are sold. Dave

Just got my first proof of the book today. It looks GREAT. There are a few "oooops" things I found in it though, so I'll fix those. My proof with the final cover on it isn't due for another two weeks or so, but once that's in and if it looks good, I'll have my first batch printed up. I've discovered that the company takes about 1 month to fulfill an order, so I expect to have some books to offer sometime around early to mid December (just in time for Christmas!) I have also contemplated a "Deluxe" version with photos in it (the current one has no photos, unfortunately) but I have yet to find a printer that can get me copies for less than around $85 per copy (contrast with $40 per copy for the print only model) so for now, the print-only version will have to suffice. I've been looking through my copy, and I'd definately buy one! Dave

I am starting to find this topic rather amusing... (though I'm not sure if it's in a good way) Anyway, it seems that everyone is concerned about the fact that the Hero of the Soviet Union is somehow devalued as a military award. How about this for a bit of trivia: The title was founded in 1934, but it wasn't until 1938 that it was first awarded for military combat action, with the first awards being for Khasan! To quote from "The Comprehensive Guide..." the first paragraph of the regulation estabilishing the Title reads as follows: "1. The Title "Hero of the Soviet Union" is the highest degree of excellence and is conferred for personal or collective efforts involving a heroic feat for the Soviet State and Society." As can be seen by this first paragraph, the award was NEVER intended to be a combat-valor-only or single-person-only award. Was it awarded for the highest combat valor? Absolutely? Was it awarded to single people? Duh - of course! But it was also awarded for non-combat actions and to collective groups? Yes it was! I think this pretty much sums the debate up by acknowledging that it could be awarded to anyone who made a great contribution to the Soviet State or society in general. Dave

I would also add that saying that these were given out "just for surviving" is an understatement. I believe there were quite a few officers that did an exceptional job in the billet they served in during the War, but were either not close enough to the frontlines, or hadn't had the single opportunity of distinguishing themselves required for a non-combat award in order to have earned a decoration during the War. Thus, in order to reward their excellent service and to show appreciation for their part in the War, they were given the Red Stars. Dave

I wouldn't go quite that far with the analogy (e.g. comparing them to 1985 jubilee awards) but there were quite a number given out in mid to late 1945 and early 1946. In my database, we start seeing numbers around 1,3XX,XXX given out in May 1945, going all the way up to 2,6XX,XXX given out by early 1946 (with even some greater outlying numbers on either side!) Were all 1,300,000 Red Stars given out to guys who "did their job" through the War? I really don't think so. Obviously, there were quite a few Red Stars given for Berlin, Koeningsburg, Prague, war against Japan, catch up awards, long service, etc.... I would venture to bet though that a good portion of that 1,300,000 number WERE given to officers who finished the War though. What percentage of the 1.3 million is unknown. Maybe half a million? Maybe less? Maybe more? It's impossible to know that, but I think we can say with certainty that quite a few officers received the Red Star immediately after the War to serve as their single decoration from the War. Dave

Gilbert: THis guy is rather interesting. It appears to me that he was wounded and then was not on the frontlines from about 1942 on. I could be wrong on that, but I'm not good at deciphering handwriting like this! This Red Star was given to him by the 3rd Belorussian Front (that's the recent handwriting on the bottom of the back page) even though he was nominated for the For Valor medal. It appears that this is one of those orders that was for him doing a "good job" through the War... I've seen quite a few instances where officers in front units received Red Stars at the end of the War, even if it was "only" for surviving the War. It appears that this fellow was out of the service (he was "in reserve") shortly after the end of the War. The other medal that he received is the Victory Over Germany medal. That's all! Dave

Here's the document for it.

I had one once with a very similar ribbon. The medal itself was different though.

Christian: Nice group! To me, it appears that he had a "classic" career in the Soviet navy, making all of ranks and command positions on time. His promotions were actually right on schedule... He was promoted to Captain 1st Rank after 22 years of service, which is about normal even today. A small note about commodores.... The US Navy had (and has) both a rank and title of Commodore. Same word, but different meanings. The RANK of Commodore (one star admiral) has come and gone throughout the years, and was finally replaced for good in the 1980s with the rank of Rear Admiral, Lower Half (abbreviated as RDML.) However, this is different than the TITLE of Commodore, which means someone who is in charge of a squadron of ships - much like Captain 1st Rank Kandybin. Thus, he would have been considered a Commodore in title, but not in rank, as the two had different meanings: the person in charge of a squadron of ships would be a Captain 1st Rank, but would have the title of Commodore, whereas the person who was a one-star admiral had the rank of Commodore, but chances were that he was not in charge of a squadron of ships, and was actually in charge of a flotilla, group or a larger unit of ships. Hope that helps clarify things. Dave

How could I not give into that request??? Here's the first page! (So now you know what's inside the cover...) (Sorry, I'm being cheeeky...) I actually wish I could e-mail the book out to everyone, but unfortunately I wouldn't be able to sell any if I did that! Dave

Just as a pretaste, here's my semi-final version of the cover. We'll see how this looks when it's actually printed... Dave

Guys- Thanks for all the early sales. I pretty much compiled the book for the members of this forum, so it really won't be offered too many other places besides here. You all are great! Dave

I would agree that the Comprehensive Guide is the primary book to have, as that's the introduction into what all the awards are. Echoes of War is nice, but it's "Step 2" (as I would consider it) that takes a basic collector who knows the differences between the awards to becoming the collector who can make educated opinions about when awards were issued, what is included in research, what certain awards were given for and the like. Just my opinion, of course! As for mine, it's not really meant to compete with either of the other two books... I consider it more of a "labor of love" (since it is non-profit) and it originated from many requests by members of this forum and elsewhere. I don't intend for it to have a wide distribution like the other two books: if I can sell 100 copies, I will be quite impressed. Dave

Actually, the HSU is the accurate equivelent to the Victoria Cross, Knights Cross, Medal of Honor, etc. Although having the 1st Class Glory is an impressive feat, it simply meant that three valorous feats were recognized and credited - the feat that earned the Glory 1st was no greater nor less than what earned the Glory 3rd. Although many of the HSU titles were given out for "political" reasons rather than combat valor, I would say that the majority of HSU titles were given for single valourous acts (e.g. look at the numbers for the crossing of the Dnepr, for example.) Thus, the HSU is a better comparison to the other nation's highest valor awards rather than the Glory 1st which was actually a conglomoration of three individual feats and their subsequent recognition. Dave

Isn't there the possibility though that by the time that Avalov was issuing out these awards (or someone else in the White government) the "Christian" and "non-Christian" categories had been washed away from the award? Avalov himself was a real dirtbag, who wasn't really royalty (he was self-proclaimed as part of the Romanov family, but really wasn't) and if this medal group was truly from a Friekorps soldier who was given these awards by Avalov's forces, then the chance of them actually taking the time to determine the religion of a person is quite doubtful. Of course, that's just my personal opinion from the small bit I know about Avalov and his forces. Dave

Here's the reverse of the order. Not really the highest quality. These also came with rubies and diamonds, so I have to imagine that the quality increased at some point in the rank structure. Also, I found a blurry image (I know I have better, somewhere) of the folder, and it actually just has the gold embossed seal of the Republic on the front.

Guys- Thanks for the compliments on the order. This is one of the ones I kick myself for selling as the scan just doesn't do the beauty justice. It was awarded in 1985. It was really a nice award, though it wasn't gold - it was the "typical" low-quality plating of some sort as seen on the many gold "colored" medals of the Warsaw pact. This was one of two groups that I had with this badge - though the second one was missing the award. I wanted to buy another to replace it, but I just never felt the need to shell out the cash to buy one (the average price for one was around $500 when I was looking at them.) I have a spreadsheet somewhere that lists all of these awards issued by year... I need to see if I can find it. Here's a scan of the document. I apologize for it being so big, but if I shrunk it any further it wouldn't be readable. The paper was washed out by the scanner - it was actually a nice cream colored paper in a brown leatherette binder with the order embossed on the cover in gold (as I remember - I will try to find a photo of it) Overall, a very high-end quality presentation document. Dave

I don't know if this fits into the right time period or not, but this is one that I had in my collection at one time. The Order of the Flag of the People's Republic of Hungary. This one was awarded to Chief Marshal of Aviation Aleksandr Koldunov.

Very cool! I own Avalov's personal flag... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4544

Robin: That's the Order of Saint Anne (or Anna, depending on who is calling it what) 4th Class. Here's a link to it on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Anna Can you shoot a scan of the whole set? Looks fascinating! Do you know anything about the vet? Dave

Now on a side note to this comment... Having sold on eBay since 1995, I find it interesting people's opinions of eBay dealers - as it tends to come and go in "waves" for some reason. I have sold several hundred Soviet decorations on eBay and sometimes they sell, sometimes they don't. For some reason, many people believe that any Soviet award being sold on eBay is fake or doctored. Not sure why that is, but I do remember one guy who I was helping out as a new Soviet collector who used to send me links of my own auctions to ask "do you think this is real?" Ummm.... let's see... if I'm selling it, it probably IS real.... Quite ironic, I think. Sorry for the rabbit trail... Dave

I'm with Ed on this... I think it's just good business practice to let the purchaser know that one person's idea of condition disagrees with another. The dealer didn't say that PMD was wrong, or gave out bad certificates or whatever, he simply disagreed with the condition ranking. Paul is just as human as the rest of us and looks at a lot of awards on a regular basis. The "hard science" part of his certificates are whether an item is fake or not. The "art" (as Ed so aptly calls it) is making the condition ranking, and I sure that his opinions on condition vary as much as the condition of each piece varies. For me personally, I have had pieces with authentication certificates that have had the same condition ranking, but varied fairly significantly (in my opinion) in condition - though in most cases I think that PMDs condition rankings are conservative (which is the best side to err on!) Don't get too wrapped around the axle because someone disagrees with Paul. I just think this dealer is trying to do the "right" thing for the potential purchaser of the group. Dave

Now here's some irony to throw in here. This is a reflection of the hierarchy of awards amongst collectors - and how different it can be... I have owned 300 Glory 3rds, and have researched about 100 of them (maybe more.) I would happily trade a Glory 3rd for a post-war unnumbered and documented Military Merit medal or For Valor medal in a heartbeat, even though the Glory is "worth" more, money-wise. Why is that? Because for me, if I see yet ANOTHER Glory 3rd awarded to an artilleryman or mortarman who killed "up to a platoon of Hitlerites", I might just hurt myself..... I'd rather have a Military Merit medal that was given for something unusual, such as the top graduate of the airborne officer school (I have one) in the 1960s than to have another Glory 3rd with a citation that reflects about 70% of all the others I've seen So, I think we can all agree that there was an unofficial hierarchy of awards amongst soldiers, just as there is an unofficial hierarchy of awards amongst collectors. Both of these unofficial hierarchies are different between collectors, just as they were between soldiers - everyone has their own opinion and there's rarely a "common" ground. Dave

Wow! Now doesn't THAT story turn any list that we might make on its head! In contrast, I just sold a group of awards that had been purchased directly from the veteran, a retired Air Force Colonel. According to the original buyer of the group who sat down and talked with the veteran for a while, the Colonel was exceedly bitter to the military and the USSR because while serving in the 1950s (still don't know what he was doing exactly - research is pending) he "only" received a Red Banner while all of his peers received Lenins for the "same thing." I don't know what that "thing" was, but it's interesting to see how before WW2 a pilot complained about receiving a Lenin, yet 15 years later, another pilot was left with years of bitterness because he DIDN'T receive a Lenin. It's interesting how people's minds change. Same award, same position in the "on paper" hierarchy, but vastly different points of view... Dave