rocketscientist

For completeness, here's my Mothers of Fallen Medal, WW1 version with rare original ribbon, with sewn-on tricolour ribbon.

There were two versions of this medal. One issued during/after WW1 and one in 1956 for the mothers of fallen during WW2. All medals posted in this thread so far are type 1 (recognised by the presence of the brim along the circumference of the medal). The second version is much less common (I could only find one picture of it).

I think that a scan of the awarding document would be interesting in this thread. It says: "The Minister of War decrees the soldier <your name here> is authorized to bear the medal instituted in memory of the war MCMXV-MCMXVIII Rome, the day june 17th, 1921 The Minister Giulio Rodinò"

One last question, Rob! Do you know of any difference in the ribbon associated to this medal, worn by French veterans? The one coming with my medal has much lighter colours than a standard "italian" ribbon as you can see in the S.Johnson example I have posted for comparison. I just do not know (again!) whether the ribbon of the Delande medal is a bad repro or the correct one considering the specific agreement between italian and french governments concerning this award. Regards Sergio

Hi Rob, you just added your last two posts while I was writing mine. I am glad to get more and more information concerning this medal and, with your last post, why it could be manufactured in France. All this is just exciting... Thank you Sergio

Rob, this is a great piece of information! Finally I am able to close a case that I'm trying to understand since I purchased this medal in 2007... in France! Frankly, I was totally unaware of foreign manufacturers of Italian Medals, I was more keen to imagine that this was an example of a small private production for veterans far after the end of WW1. This is a common case for WW2 Medals in Italy, mainly because of the transition from Kingdom to Republic that occurred immediately after. I do not know whether it was also the case in the twenties with the rise of the fascism. To know that this medal is (a)not a fake and (b)not issued in the last 10 years is really a relief, I'm happy and grateful that you could clarify once for ever this issue. Regards Sergio

Hello! I can't remember whether I had posted this medal in the past or not, but still I need help to identify it. Opinions from whoever has knowledge or experience of either faked commemorative 1915-18 medals or of unofficial productions will be very welcome. Long ago I purchased this Commemorative Medal of the Italy-Austria War 1915-18 with no markings and that is significantly different from the medal of any known manufacturer. Everything is strange of this medal, starting from the color of the bronze to the size of the figures, and in particular there are heavy signs of filing all around the brim. The name of the medal's designer (S.CANEVARI) is not present. The oak leaves on the obverse are doubled, as shown in the scans. I am pretty sure this medal is a toy or a fake, but this would be the first I see in my life, therefore I need more information if possible. Originals of this medal are so cheap and available in quantity that I would be surprised to learn they are faked for profit. In addition to pictures of the "suspect" medal, I post scans of it between two standard originals, for comparison. Thanks for your support. Sergio

My experience with posting pictures on GMIC is that all pictures are reduced compared with the original, even if the original file size is far below the allowed maximum of 8M. Frankly, I could not understand the criteria followed by this resize, for sure the loaded file is always different from the source. This means that we have very limited control over the quality of the scans and the percent of zooming that Nick can apply on them. The only mitigation action is to start from big enlargement of details (the medal with no suspension, as Auke suggests, or even smaller) such to maximise the information surviving the upload process. As an example, a recent scan of mine. The original picture is 1639 × 3434 and the file size is 4M. After loading this file, I expect 4M left available for uploading from the initial 8M. Instead, this is what I read: Friendship front.jpg Done (uploaded 3.84 MB) Add to Post | Delete Attach Files You can upload up to 7.94MB of files (Max. single file size: 7.87MB) Trouble uploading? Try our basic uploader Note that if you click on the thumbnail you can see that the file is 64k (!) - Dear Nick, I am not surprised you have not much to zoom with such a small file ciao, Sergio

Felice Anno Nuovo anche a te, Nick! I want to encourage you to carry on with these lessons about fake-spotting also along new year 2014. As you know, I am one of the pupils that needs more advice on this matter... ! cheers sergio

Thank you for the clarification. To my eye, they couldn't be distinguished from any other Polar Award document. I have checked for the double signatures, and I have none like that in my collection.

If I had it, I would not even be in position to recognise it. Any pictures?

Great work, Nick! Very clear and instructive. Thank you, I am sure these information will be useful to many forum members to escape frauds! sergio

I agree! There is always something to learn from mistakes. Anyhow it seems that I personally do nor learn enough from mine. Considering all the fakes I have accumulated so far (I did not post them all, still) in years of collecting, I should be a professor!

I collect some documents in podvignaroda, it will make me busy for a while if I will try to translate it. In any case, the group is definitely a put together that now has not much interest in my opinion. It will only remind me my stupidity when I will look at it.

No Idea whether the documents are valid, but some look credible (like the Ordenskaya Knizhka, for example). I have got pictures of the awardee, but I cannot be sure that match with the actual recipient of the decorations. Feel free to comment the posted pictures. Here is the Award Booklet Here the potential awardee http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-29214200-1385312922.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-52426600-1385312946.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-57002500-1385312933.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-35640400-1385312955.jpg Here other documents I am not able to understand. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-74119100-1385313096.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-24387100-1385313114.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-19219100-1385313135.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-11610900-1385313243.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-07925100-1385313262.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-5691-0-59415900-1385313280.jpg

The document is given to a Captain who can be found in podvignaroda files, where the awarding of one CS and 2 ORS are recorded. The third ORS might be recorded under a mistyped entry. In the second citation for awarding a Red star, the previous awards are mentioned, and I have the impression that, in addition to the CS, there are 2 ORS already in the list (handwritten in black ink in the scan).

That was my problem, Nick... same with the ORSs, I assume. Thank you.

It's also my pleasure to meet you on this forum, Sergio! You raised a very good point, why should fakers put an effort to engrave a serial number on a medal which ALREADY has one, moreover it is a very common and cheap? It might be worth to do it, if by doing it you would increase the value of the medal. As you say, engraving a N° would a possible solution, but there are more. Have a look to these Red Stars. They are original, but... Again, why to alter the serial number of an order just to make it in the range above the million? The value would not increase more than 10-15$ and would not justify the effort. But... let's assume that one day at your local flea market you find some papers relevant to a ww2 veteran, like these: ... then you look at the award booklet and suddenly you realise how to boost up the value of your simple, scattered, red stars you always wanted to get rid of.... Now you will understand my doubts, I suppose. ciao

Another bad purchase... Do you see anything wrong with this Combat Service? It looks doctored to me, the number does not correspond to the variant of the medal. Do you see any sign of buffing?

I understand that Item#6356 was not sold. This only because I was not attending the auction...

Fake Red Star (I also have some of them ) This had the reverse polished and a new number engraved in order to match with the document. A nice job, I have to say. The pattern of the background is homogeneous everywhere. On the other end, the document looks very nice. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-78623400-1382908135.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-93724400-1382908138.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-88129000-1382908142.jpg

Another non-orthodox Sevastopol... ...of mine! http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-37717400-1382043200.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-32064300-1382043225.jpg http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-58593800-1382043251.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-69402500-1382043298.jpg

well, of course!

here is mine

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-5691-0-68625600-1381786501.jpghere's mine.