Chuck In Oregon

OK, what I think this is, is an Attestation of Good Character of Staff Warrant Officer Geracim Ocipovski. It is by his company commander, Captain Zaitsev, in respect of excellent service on the occasion of Ocipovski's discharge, August 22, 1887. What you see is half of a large sheet of very heavy paper, almost like modern construction paper, considering that it is 118 years old. The rest is blank. It was folded several times before it was sealed with the sealing wax you see. The document is nearly 14" tall. This is all according to my notes of a conversation and an oral translation. Even modern Russian cursive is difficult for me to read and Old Russian is nearly impossible. Chuck

You know, a couple of years ago I passed on a very nice collection of Imperial table medals for just a few hundred bucks, most in as nice a condition as George's, and 3-4 of which were very rare. I thought at the time, "No one will ever be interested in these things." Well, I forgot ... I'm interested in them. So, all I have are occasional pick-ups like these. This is the medal commemorating the 1882 Russian Exposition in Moscow. I'd like to trade the lesser example for one I don't have. Chuck

I have thought all along, since I bought this, that he was a late-era Tsarist general. However, I admit to doubts now. Rick asked a good and sensible question. The more I know, the more I wish I knew. Thank you, Steen. Chuck

* * * * * I have made no end of mistakes in my life, so now you've made me wonder if I haven't made another one. Perhaps Steen Ammentorp can tell us more about General Orlov. Now that I think of it, the Trans-Caucasus Border Guard District may well have been an early Soviet district, rather than Imperial. That makes sense. If so, I apologize. Nice catch. You've really got me wondering. Chuck

* * * * * I think this was in late 2003 or so. Yes, a photo would have been nice, but I really didn't expect the opportunity. Chuck

This is a solid silver presentation piece to General-Lieutenant Vitali Firsovich Orlov. It is a silver representation of his shoulder board, but without stars. It is proofed and maker marked, with his stylized initials -- they really knew how to stylize letters back in the day -- on the left and the shoulder board n the right, and his command at the bottom. This actually came off of a pretty impressive presentation hunting rifle. For those of you who might not know it, Georgia has been a hunting getaway for Russian royalty ever since there was Russian royalty. Anyway, it was offered to me but I couldn't get it home, so I declined. Then they said "What about the silver piece?" I declined, saying that I didn't want to damage the rifle. Before I could object, they had popped it off the rifle stock, gouging the beautiful circassian walnut stock in the process. Oh well. Gen. Orlov was chief of the #6 Trans-Caucasus Border Guard District, headquartered at #77 Cherkoviaski St. in Tbilisi, Georgia. The 6th District consisted of the following: 1. #25 Black Sea Brigade, Batumi, Georgia 2. #26 Karsk City Brigade (wiped out in detail in WW II) 3. #27 Yerevan Brigade 4. #28 Elizabethpol Brigade (my notes fail me on this one) 5. #29 Baku Brigade I have at least one other silver presentation item like this one. They seem to have been pretty popular items in the day. OK, your turn. Chuck

That's a very nice commemorative table medal. I just did a quick look through my book "Two Centuries of Russian Medals" by E. C Shukina (Russian text only) and it isn't illustrated in there. Nice find. I have a couple of Imperial era table medals and a drawer full of Soviet ones. I never thought about posting them because I doubted that there would be any interest. I stopped showing them to visitors due to their yawns. I like them though, for their historical significance. I'll post the few I have if there's any interest. Thanks for suggesting this thread. Chuck

* * * * * Wow, the presssure is really on now. I'll have to post a few more of these, now that I know there is some real interest. I wouldn't mind seeing some more members post here, either. I joined to learn and share, not just share. I have a LOT more questions than answers. I have a cross-over Imperial-Red Army group that I've been thinking about posting either here or on the Soviet forum. I think I'll post it here. There are Imperial badges, a St. George Cross and a documented 3-Rivet Red Star. I'll try to get to it by Wednesday. Over to you, George. Thanks Gerd! Chuck

* * * * * The Soviets certainly didn't invent bureaucracy, but they may have perfected its excesses. "Apparatchiki" is still a meaningful and commonly used word in the FSU. So is the lovely phrase for those who hide at headquarters while others do the real work: "Chancellery Mice". One of my personal favorites. Chuck

Thank you. I stand corrected. There is no tie to St. Petersburg. I no longer remember why I thought that there might be. When I went to my own meager resources I couldn't find a single indication that St. Petersburg might be involved. Another senior moment, I'm afraid. Chuck

I think that this, too, is a graduate's badge from the Imperial Russian University at St. Petersburg. It is an interesting comparison with the one above. This one is gold-plated solid silver, 84 proofed and maker marked. The rhomb and eagle are one piece and the cross-with-wreath is the second piece. Even the screwback is silver and both proofed and maker marked. This badge is oversized, which was an affectation of the wealthy. Check out the side-by-side image. This one has white guilloche enamel, the highest quality. The blue is a high quality translucent enamel. On this example there is a surface chip on the blue enamel just below the cross member. I have read that there are gold examples of this badge but I haven't seen one. This is, by far, the fanciest example of this graduate's badge that I have seen. This one screamed "I'm rich ... and you're not!"

Here is what I think is a graduate's badge of the Imperial Russian University at St. Petersburg. It is a three piece bronze badge. The eagle is attached to a finger of the rhomb that sticks up at the top. The enamel is plain and rather ordinary. It is not translucent or seemingly of particularly high quality. You did well to earn this badge but you were probably not among society's elite if this is all the quality you or your family could afford upon graduation. The white enamel on this one has a surface chip at the bottom and a crack on the lower right side. It's a pretty good example.

* * * * * Hello Andreas That one is s/n 168444. I have another, s/n 124499. Chuck

Isn't this something like "For Faultless Service in the Police?" I think this is the one illustrated in Avers 5, #73. A police/militia collector will have to chip in with the requirements. Chuck

This is a solid silver, dated and attributed jeton of the Imperial Benevolent Society. You can see an 1899 example in Avers 3, item 507. I believe that the charter of this society was to assist wounded war veterans. Chuck

What I think this is, as opposed to, say, being able to document it, is the badge of the Imperial Society of Faith, Hope and Love. I believe that each of the symbols stands for one of the elements: the cross for Faith, the anchor for Hope and the heart for Love. If anyone cares to correct me, I'd be glad for a reference that says exactly what this is. This is a 4-part badge, solid silver with four colors of enamel. There are no proof or hallmarks. If I recall my one conversation about this badge correctly, this society cared for wounded veterans and injured non-combatants. Please tell me more. Chuck

* * * * * That's what it looks like to me.

I didn't know I was stepping into a phaleristic minefield with this thread. I don't mean to offend. It's just that I was so surprised to see any mention at all of this award. You can tell how new I am. As to whether there were multiple classes, I have no independent knowledge. However, I do know from personal conversations that the most advanced collectors in Georgia and Azerbaijan think there were, as does the author of that pamphlet. I defer to better minds. I do know, from an inside source, that Aslan had a fancy version made in memory of his father in the belief that there was a first class version. He must not have had access to that thesis. As for the example I own, a Georgian collector bought it at auction in Europe a few years ago. He believed, and passed along to me, that it was made in Georgia. I have one question. Where and how are WW II examples that are attributed to the re-constituted Georgian Legion accounted for? I, too, will seek sanctuary in sedation. Chuck

* * * * * Are you kidding? I couldn't help myself. I had to start a new thread about the Order of Queen Tamar. See you there. Chuck

Tamar is universally adored in Georgia. As an historical figure, she ranks along with King David "The Builder" and only slightly below St. Nino, who brought Christianity to Georgia. As an aside, did you know that Georgia is the second-oldest Christian nation? Some Georgian say the oldest, but Armenia probably has a stronger claim to that. Tamar was succeeded by two ne'er-do-well sons who allowed the nation to fall into ruin and domination. I have one or two odd-shaped period coins with her name on them and a couple with her sons' names. She is routinely referred to by the honorific "King Tamar", rather than as Queen. That was the highest honor that Georgians could grant a woman, to call her a man. Hmmm. I don't think I'll try that at my house any time soon. I have been in dozens and dozens of discussions about her, and I never, not one single time, ever heard a single disparaging remark about her. I later stumbled onto Lermontov's poem, then later still I began to hear of the horror stories about her. Here are the two pages in the book in English that are devoted to Georgian awards. Yes, I'd say there is room for more study here. OK, your turn. Chuck

Most of what is believed about Tamar is based on rumors that flowed for centuries out of the Caucasus. Remember, this was a forbidding and scary place back in the day. Still is, in some ways. These stories -- the most common were about seducing unwary travelers, then killing them the next morning -- were the equivalent of whistling past the graveyard. The Caucasus region was terra incognita for centuries and this was as good a reason as any not to go there. These horror stories were immortalized in Lermontov's brief poem about her: В той башне, высокой и тесной Царица Тамара жила Прекрасна, как ангел небесный Как демон, коварна и зла In that tower, high and narrow Tsaritsa Tamara lives Lovely, like a heavenly angel Like a demon, treacherous and evil Well, poets don't always get it right. Here is my Order of Queen Tamar. It is a Third Class and I never thought I'd see another one, in any class. This one was sold at auction in Europe 2-3 years ago for 2,000 euros plus premium. I paid significantly less than that for it or I wouldn't own it today. Times are tough in Georgia.

It looks like I missed all the fun last summer, in the thread "The World's Most BIZARRE Award-- A New Chapter!" at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1032&st=0 . I thought I'd share what little I know. First off, here is the only book I am aware of devoted to Georgian phaleristics. It is in Georgian, Russian and English, a total of 96 pages including the front and back inside pages. The author admits that this is a little-studied field. As you can see, both the front and back covers are adorned with likenesses of the Order of Queen Tamar. I was stunned to find that several members here own examples, and even a 1st Class at that. Let me tell you how hard it is to find an authentic example of this order. Until the spring of 2004, Georgia's so-called Adjaran Autonomous Republic -- on the Black Sea bordering Turkey -- was ruled by the iron hand of Aslan Abashidze. Aslan abdicated under extreme pressure shortly after the success of the Rose Revolution. Aslan had it all in Adjara -- money, power and influence in nearly unlimited degrees. For all practical purposes, he was an untouchable head of state within a sovereign state. He could do and have almost anything he wanted. Almost anything, but he couldn't find an Order of Queen Tamar, First Class. Aslan claimed that his grandfather had earned that Order of Queen Tamar. Contrary to what some have written, quite a few native Georgians, especially -- but not necessarily limited to -- those in Muslim regions and/or close to the Turkish and Azeri borders, were members of the Georgian Legion. That would include Adjara and Aslan's grandfather, according to him. He set out on an unsuccessful quest to find an original order. What he wound up doing was commissioning a private maker to craft a duplicate for him. There simply weren't any available. Now, to my utter astonishment, I find one here. Assuming its bona fides, which I am pleased to do in the absense of any other information, that First Class is rare beyond my ability to describe rare. More to follow.

* * * * * When I look at my collections, I sometimes wonder if someday someone will look at some forgotten picture of me in uniform and wonder about me. At least there is a strong possibility that my family will be able to, in the unlikely event that they might want to. Even these Georgian and Russian guys who didn't get killed in the war didn't have much of a future. The grandfather of one of my closest friends was liquidated for being a former White officer. Later, his son was liquidated for "Harboring Anti-Soviet Thoughts". Then his brother, my friend's father, was kicked out of university and lost all his party affiliations for being the brother of a liquidated person. Another good friend became a pretty notorious dissident after doing his time in the Red Army in the early '80s. He was beaten several times, then he was sentenced to 15 years in the gulags for "Expressing Anti-Soviet Sentiments". He only served about six months of really hard time before Reagan and Gorbachev signed the Glastnost Agreements. One of the terms of the agreements was to release some political prisoners. My friend was one. <<Are there any archives or records that might reveal why he was awarded his St. George Cross?>> None that I have ever heard of, although I have often wondered the same thing. Maybe someone out there knows a definitive answer. Chuck

* * * * * Aw, c'mon. Georgia is pretty peaceful, if you don't count those pesky semi-autonomous regions (completely supported and kept in power by Russia in order to de-stabilize the region) and, of course, everybody's favorite, the Pankisi Gorge and the (mostly) phantom Chechen camps. I was graciously invited to a supra in my honor in Omalo, pretty much the center of the Pankisi, back in 2003. It's just a mud spot on a mountain, but something has to be central. I said, "Well, that might not be all that safe for me, do you think?" Their answer? "No, Chuck. For you, we will make it safe." Um, no thanks. Someone might not get the word. I was in Tbilisi all during the Rose Revolution. In fact, Shevardnadze escaped past me just a few feet away. I have some blurry pictures. Even then, it was a peaceful revolution, as much as any revolution has ever been. I was in the crowds in front of parliament most nights and I never saw more than the occasional drunk and, admittedly, too many spetznatz. When I saw the heavily armed guard on the front steps of parliament accept a bouquet of roses from a girl, I knew it was all over for the old regime. That was a sight that will always stay with me. Anyway, some of the very best people, and friends, I have ever known are Georgians. I owe them a lot more that I can ever repay. I have to stick up for them when I can. One of these days I'll tell you about our Georgian charity. Chuck

* * * * * No, Danny. I don't think they put s/ns on their locally commissioned badges and awards. I have several varieties and none have a s/n. Chuck