Mervyn Mitton

New member - Jonathan Rand - welcome to GMIC, has asked that I post this picture of a bludgeon passed down in his family. I will put a number of pictures on and then we can comment - however, first let Jonathan give us the background. He also has a nice truncheon which will go on as a separate post.

With the mention of different patterns of Mounted Police batons, I thought I had better post a picture of them. The caption is self explanatory and I think in the above photo, the type of staff is the first one - later changed to the sabre. Copyright: The Policeman's Lot. Quiller Press. 1985

You raise some very interesting questions with this photo . You will know better than I, that the rank of Commander is fairly new - I think it came in early 70's. The equivalent army rank is full colonel - against Lt. Col. for a Ch. Supt. I mention this because under the early regs. only the Comm.; Dep. Comm.; and the four Asst. Comms. rated a bi-corne hat with swans feathers. These had a blue section to denote Police and for the Assts. were quite short - only really being at the top of the hat. The point I am making is that here we have a senior rank - but, not that senior - wearing the head dress of a General ? The Parade Commander for the Trooping of the Colour is usually an Asst. Comm.,or, the Deputy Comm. and swords are worn - however, swords would not have been in his rank specifications. Was he the Parade Commander - it would seem so with his Sgt.? For members not familiar with the customs of the Met. Police , even the Trooping has to be nominally under a Police Officer for movement and public order - the civil authorities always being in charge - unless martial law is declared. You are of course quite correct that the withdrawel of the traditional uniforms and equipment has weakened morale and lessened their dignity in the eyes of the public. As a police historian and an exConstable it saddens me to see how casually things are discarded - often , because a 'high flier' writes a long thesis on why it would be better to change traditions. This happened with our armbands. When my book was first published I was invited onto a major TV show - run by a husband and wife team, it was an investigative programme. The Met. had just apoointed an exBrigadier from the Army to Hendon. His first act had been to try and discard the wooden truncheons in favour of a small kung-fu flail. Two short pieces of wood joined by metal links. They demonstrated this and then I was asked to speak from a Constable's perspective. I said it was rubbish - how could you, amongst many other examples, break a window to gain entry in an emergency to a home - I won my point and I have never heard of it again. But, someone won - we now have a German expanding commando weapon from WW2 - I bought one in Berlin in the late 1960's and it is identical in materials and operation to the ASP....

How dare they have a 'Rorke's Drift' in Darwin. I suppose he was a Sth.Af. who got drunk and was left behind....

Stuart - if it is the Duke of Connaught he must have had precedence as the Queen's Uncle. However, Royal protocal being what it is, I would have thought one of Her other sons - or, even Edwards son the Prince of Wales - would have been ahead ? Thinking about the Czar - I don't remember him being in attendance -- he would certainly have been with the King. I wonder what else we can turn-up just from this photo ? I have seen an order of service - probably one in the Museum of London - if anyone has a chance to call on them ?

Peter - nice that you have a fully stamped example. Can't be too many left. The carbine was originally designed for artillery and cavalry and we see quite a few in Natal - left over from the Zulu War of 1879. Do you have any Lee Metfords or Enfields for the RIC ? What about bayonets - did they issue them for the Martini ?

Tom - another great old photo. Interesting in that the truncheon carried is cased - but is not the sabre, which was longer. Perhaps this was the interim one between swords and sabres ? Now that sabres have been withdrawn, I see they are / were back to carrying a standard wooden truncheon. What has happened with the change to the ASP - are the Mounted branch now carrying this ? Must be difficult to swing down to the right to use it - and, the momentum could cause serious injuries.

Not such a 'big gun' - but one that had great influence in our endeavours in the mountains of India. The Mountain Howitzer - which broke down in sections to be carried on mules.

Alex - your blow-ups are very good - you must have a special programme. I think this is the first time I have seen the crowd in this set of photos. Stuart - The 'fat' figure in the middle is King Edward - The Duke of Connaught was the Queen's Uncle, but probably not senior enough for the first rank. Probably the two Emperors - Russia and Germany - both were sons-in-law to Queen Victoria. The hundreds of other 'minor' Royalty are probably the mob in the background. Interesting, it looks as if Generals and Admirals are flanking the catafalque. I mentioned the double line parade of Police - with the blow-up I can see (I think ?) ball tops to the men on the right. Does it mean they were drawn from Forces around the Country ? A single photo - and yet it represents just so much history.

Nice group Brian - and so complete with the paperwork. Nick's extra info. helps too. AH ! The ration book - I used to have the child's book - entitled to something they called 'orange juice' AND cod's liver oil - only the Powers above know how I survived the War.........

Stuart - Hi. Perhaps we should warn you that the tins - empty - sell for between £20 - £25 ($30-40) , dependent on condition. The little bullet pencils are over £30 ($45)

Kevin - anything to do with the cinque ports is interesting. Unfortunately, I can't really add anything on the sword - but the history of the Ports goes back to the 12th Century when the first Admiral was appointed. The Lord Warden is the highest honour the Queen can bestow - and to show it's importance - amongst the many distinguished holders have been Sir Winston Churchill and The Late Queen Mother. Most of the pictures from WW2 that show Churchill in uniform, he is wearing the official full dress of Lord Warden.

Jonathan - a nice addition. Impressive Royal Cypher - is it a little larger than usual ? Another interesting feature is that the turned section of the guard - to prevent wear on clothing - is very prominent.

Sir John Fielding - the first magistrate for the Bow Street Public Office, set-up a force of mounted patrol officers in 1763. They were known as the Bow Street Patrol and were very effective. They were re-formed in 1805 by Sir Robert Ford - the Chief Magistrate at Bow Street. They were the first uniformed and paid men in the history of English policing. They were eventually absorbed into the Metropolitan Police - after 1829. The main reform of the Branch was in the 1919/20's and it was probably from this date they they wore standard numbering for Divisions.

A FAMILY AT WAR : Bryson ; on top right - his Brother. A Flt.Lt in the RAF. Shot down and a POW. Mother - a corporal in charge of packing parachutes. On right : Father - a Squadron Leader and served in Europe in command of one of Rhodesia's three fighter squadrons.

I recenty posted - on Police - some history of an Inspector in the, now defunct, British South Africa Police . (Rhodesia.) However, in 1944 - at the age of 18 - he joined a contingent of young men from Rhodesia, who joined and served in the Royal Navy. He wrote and showed pictures from his service days in a very good autobiography - '50 Magic Years In Rhodesia ' - his name is Brick Bryson. I thought I would show a few details of his Naval service - already a period being forgotten. He is now 86 and in a nursing home having suffered a severe stroke. The young Rhodesians were sent down to Durban for basic training - and having had six weeks to learn 'everything' they embarked on an old troopship for a dangerous trip to Ceylon (now Sri Lanka). After disembarking they found themselves on board a new Colonial Class medium cruiser - H.M.S.CEYLON. She had heavy armament including nine 6 inch guns. He took part in a number of fleet actions against the Japanese forces - including in the Andaman Islands and the Nicobar Islands. British possessions which had been seized. The cap was his original issue - however, the photo is dated 1945 so, the Captain must have immediately had the cap tallies changed when war ceased. HMS was on tallies during hostilities - not the ship name. This tally could have been paid for privately - it has raised bullion lettering, which is not standard issue. He was an AB and served in the middle gun on A turret.

Some lovely pieces, Paul. I'm puzzled though by the embroidered design on the drummer's tunic. Are the little blue motifs representing a fleur-de-lis or, perhaps a shamrock ? I'm probably way off on both suggestions .....

I hope this becomes a detailed history thread,Leigh. I think these backgrounds are invaluable for research and quick reference. Thanks.Merv.

Lars - Sweetheart brooches have become a big collecting field in the UK, since several books have been written about them. I would suggest that you have a jeweller value the diamonds for you - also , is it white gold or, silver ? Consider sending it to a good auction in London - I would think £600 ($900) and upwards - but get an opinion first.

A great picture. I think it must be Metropolitan Police - and probably from around the 1880's/1890's. Swords were discontinued about that time. Also, the helmet is the Met. style with Rose - not the one which followed the top hats. What is interesting is that pushed into the straps of his cape - carried across the saddle in front of him - is the standard leather cased truncheon of the period. When swords were withdrawn the Met. carried an ash stick, bound with twine.(about 3'6'' long. 105cm) This had a leather guard and was carried in a bucket scabbard - this was always known as a sabre. Would be good to have confirmation - a close-up might allow the medals to be seen - as Leigh asked. Also, the helmet plate might come into better detail.