Mervyn Mitton

This is by Cruikshank and is dated 1807. The historical interest is great. Firstly - the gamblers are saying it is 11.30p.m. and the Beadle and the Parish Constable are saying it is midnight ! The reason for this is that it was illegal to gamble on the Sabbath. The styles of dress are always of interest to an historian - and from our point of view the Parish Beadle is in traditional dress - and carrying his staff of office. Next to him is a figure described as the 'Watch' - he is in fact the Parish Constable - he is also carrying his staff of office with a Crown on top to show official authority. This was called a tipstaff and the Watch - or, night patrol, did not have them. The people behind them would be the Watch - with their candle lanterns - and also the assistants to the Constable - often, at that time, called bum-bailiffs. They were the ones to do any fighting. Remember - these are caricature drawings - intended to poke fun at people, which explains why they are all made to look so rough and villainous. Here is the original label - with the price I paid some 50 years ago ! This picture is not in the British Museum collection.

I have been told - many times - over the years, that members have old historical prints, but are not sure where to show them. I understand that Cathey and her husband - in Australia ,have a collection and I was hoping to add some of mine to their post. However, I will not wait any further - and will start the thread off with three of great historical significance. The practise in olden days - when newspapers were expensive and most of the public were illiterate - was to print and sell printed illustrated leaflets - usually for 1d (one penny ) each. This kept people abreast of news - and also allowed fun to be made of politicians and other public figures. Many of the artists of these drawings became famous and one of the best was Cruikshank. This first coloured one is by him - remember they could only print in black - all colour - at this time - is hand painted. I have many others - a lot of them on early Police - I will gradually add them - however, I hope members will look out and post any old ones that they have. (I am not a lover of seeing everything 'pinned' - but will do so for this one to get it 'off the ground')

Tony - you say not SWA - in that case probably East Africa. Certainly worth having his papers drawn. Mervyn

Timothy - as far as I have been told - Intaf did not have a belt. Certainly I haven't been able to find a ref.. Perhaps it was thought to be too military. The other unit that didn't have a stable belt was the BSAP.

Odin - I have never seen this picture and whilst I am sure that copies are hanging in different places - it is still rare. I think we would all appreciate seeing it sectionalised. Does it have a plan identifying each person ? I have also just noticed your avatar - this is Met. Police and is one of the rare period when numbers were on the front. Brian has started a post on helmet plates and yours is an example he needs - perhaps you could add a thread ? I am looking forward to seeing more of the portraits and thankyou for making this post. Mervyn

I have enjoyed following this post - and how you have succesfully worked out how things should be. However, I have to say that I am amazed that British Intelligence were creating almost full instructions for the piece and almost before it was in use. My estimation of our Intelligence has increased tremendously !

RHOD. LIGHT INF.. / RHOD. EDUCATION CORPS / RHOD. ARMY SERVICE CORPS RHOD. CORPS OF SIGNALS / RHOD. STAFF CORPS / RHOD.CHAPLAINS 1940-80 RHOD. ARTILLERY / RHOD. PAY CORPS / RHOD. DEF. REGT. 1973-80 RHOD. MEDICAL CORPS. / RHOD. MILITARY POLICE / RHOD. CORPS OF ENGINEERS NORTHERN RHODESIA REGT. / RHOD. DEFENCE REGT. (DUPLICATE)

IDENTIFICATIONS IN NEXT THREAD.

NOT SURE ABOUT THESE - WOULD APPRECIATE ANY SUGGESTIONS ?

A NICE SET OF RHODESIAN AFRICAN RIFLES + 2 AND 3RD. BNS.

Most militaria collectors - particularly if they have an interest in uniform, will have a few Stable Belts from different forces. However, there are many units and with amalgamations the numbers can quickly mount. This makes it difficult to build-up a complete collection. Rhodesia was different - they had most of the Corps , Units and Regiments that you would expect with a British based Colony but in smaller numbers that allowed collecting. You also have the interest in the Imperial period up to 1965 and then the U.D.I. period to 1980. Some, of course, did not change - those that had a Crown or, Insignia did. I recently bought a collection that has most - but not all - of the stable belts in use. For reference I will show them here - and there are a couple I can't identify. They are all for sale - however, I won't put them on the Sale section - too limited in their appeal. Should anyone be interested in any IM me. I always use Col. Dudley Wall's Books on Rhodesia Units for ref. - he was a personal friend, but is now in the UK. He has also done ref. books on Sth. African Badges and British. FROM TOP : S.A.S. - ARMOURED VEHICLES REGT.. - GREY'S SCOUTS

Chris - that is buying at a good price. A thousand pounds is common for o/r's with just the one bar. I bet Mike was 'annoyed' ! I think bargains are around in these present economic difficulties - collectors are still buying - but, it is for the things that enhance their collections - niot just add to them. Congratulations. Mervyn

Just a quick note to welcome you to GMIC. There are many experts on British uniforms and I am sure you will be hearing from them.

Chris - we had a very nice set of un-numbered wings and a cap badge - both genuine - and I let them go for about Rands 2500/3000 - can't remember exactly. However, if you sell in the US then they would go much higher. As a point of interest I recently bought a box with - I'm told every stable belt - incl. SAS Grey's and Selous. Haven't been through-it but have no reason to have doubt. Should anyone need one for a display let me know and I will send a picture.

Chris - a wonderful addition to any collection - I dread to think what you had to pay. They have increased a lot in recent years. I wonder how many QSA Mike has tucked away ? I must ask him ?

Well researched Brian. This County is like many in the UK - fairly small numbers and therefore limited promotion prospects. This causes many younger men to leave and join larger Forces. Your Martingale is a good find - they tend to stay with the saddle and equipment - although they are a collecting field in their own right.. Mainly of course for Cavalry. All of the Counties in Britain had interesting stories about their foundation and early struggles. Many produced Force Histories for their 150th Anniversaries - which mainly took place over the past twenty - or so, years. Robin - as a former Ch. Insp. with his Force wrote one and it would be excellent if he had the time to do a short history for our Forum. (Hint - Hint)

Brian - congratulations on researching - and starting what could be an important - as well as interesting post. With all British Police Forces it has to be remembered that until the Top Hats were phased out, there was no need for a cap badge or, helmet plate. This was from the 1860's onwards - as other Forces took time to adopt new styles. I have one query - the helmet with the integrated EIIR - this has a chrome stud in the band. This is not correct - they were always the brownish type. Perhaps the stud had to be replaced - or, it could be from another Force - I think Surrey has a silver band ? The blackened one for night duty had a fairly short life - if I remember correctly. However, there is a very collectable series for George 6th with the number inset. I think I have one I can show, I hope members will support this new post - they must have plent of helmet plates they can show. I do wonder if you shouldn't start a separate post for cap badges - there are so many of all of these that it could get confusing. Brian - when your current Staffordshire post has had it's two week's I would like this one to have it's turn. Mervyn

William - a very interesting article on a rare medallion. I have never actually seen one - but, it does remind me of the Chief's medal issued for King Edward 7th's Coronation. The smaller version had this same rough type of mount. A good addition to your collection. Mervyn

Thankyou Paul, for taking the time to re-post this. An important item and nice to know what happened. Peter, I have a feling that Australia has a ban on important medals leaving the Country - perhaps a collector in Australia could confirm that ?

Chris - most of the German bayonets in South Africa were souvenirs from either South West Africa or, East Africa. The sawbacks were invariably part of an N.C.O.'s equipment - although I can't be sure on this long one. Did the Regt. work out to be the one our member suggested ? Mervyn

Jean - Paul - you make me feel cold every time I look at your Avatar ! This was a very nice article and it is always good to see acts of bravery rewarded in a fitting manner - the tragedy of this story is that the murderer only received 16 years - time off for good behaviour and he will be out in a few years.

Hi - Simon. With the Met. 5000 men of the inner Divisions were issued with full No. 1 Dress - incl. white gloves. The uniform was made of very high quality Melton Cloth and were identical to the 1900's style. Some idiot at CO (Scotland Yard) decided they were too expensive and all were sold to Ealing Film Studio for 3.50 pounds each ($5). I noticed recently that they have now re-issued white gloves. One trick I do remember - probably borrowed from the Army - is that in very cold weather you wear a pair of thin silk gloves under leather gloves - wonderful insulation. Mervyn

With the current cold weather I needed gloves this morning - and where were they all - in my flat in Bournemouth ! The only ones that could be found were these - issued to me in the Metropolitan Police in 1967 - so, they are ready for a Police Museum. You can't pick-up anything in them and they were made too large. Needless to say we all had our own leather ones - and eventually Stores had these withdrawn and leather types with elastic were issued. The interesting thought is that gloves would never have been issued in the early days and I suppose it was down to the Constable's family to get knitting...............

I think I was right with it being a Factory Security detail - the low number of 6 makes it more of a possibility. The alternative could be that it was for one of the early Canals - if this could be proved, then it is rare and quite valuable. Did you buy it locally ? Try and think what would fit the initials ?

Just a thought - the sash might represent that he was 'officer of the day'. This meant he was the officer on duty for guards , inspecting dining halls etc.. What about the subaltern in charge of the Colour on Trooping the Colour - does he have a single sash - or, a double one ?